I know posting hands on 2p2 isn't really the done thing anymore and it's unlikely this spot is a) interesting or b) will illicit any serious responses, but my super tilting French buddy and I have been arguing relentless over a spot and it'd be nice to see what people believe are the worst and best lines in it. Or whether there is a clear cut answer (as it's LOL, a live hand and it probably matters about villain history etc but we'll see how we go...). To the hand in question...

£5/10/25 game (£25 is mandatory). Game is either 7 or 8 handed at this point, shouldn't make a great deal of difference.

Reg, who has been a little splashy so far, makes it £75 in CO, pretty bad reg-fish flats btn, I make it £325 out of SB with KQT8. Both call.

Pre flop point: In general it's probably better to have this sort of hand in a flat range but I think in this spot vs two regs who won't play worldly post and are both tilting, I think 3betting for value alone is fine.

Villain 1: £4.3k after calling Villain 2: £4.4k after calling Hero: Covers.

Flop comes K98.

Hero checks, Villain 1 checks, Villain 2 checks.

Flop: What's best line on flop? Is there a best line? If we're checking a bunch here is it better to check call or check pot? Is this effected by size of bet we might face, does it matter that both Villains could potentially stab very wide here? Theoretically what's best option?

Turn comes: 2c. Board is now K982.

Hero checks, Villain 1 £625. Villain 2 calls £625. Hero pots to £3.5k or so.

I think on turn line is now standard given we've checked twice and had this scenario play out.

So yeah, what are people doing on the flop most often and how are they proceeding if they decide to check and one of the villain's stabs at the pot.

Hope this made sense...have at it.

i would bet such a gin flop but I'm unsure about the 3bet out of position

3b is fine/standard. From a balance perspective I like check/calling flop with this hand since being c/r is kind of ugh and it's nice to have some pretty strong hands in our c/c range.

Turn ship feels kind of thin... I mean we prob have the best hand but if anyone GII I can't imagine we're in good shape. I dunno, with SPR as it is tho and no-one capable of anything tricky OTF then it may be completely fine. I'm more tempted to just lead the turn myself.

I probably shouldn't have posted any action past the flop. The discussion was what would be the worst line we could take on the flop...

pretty sure folding would be the worst action we could take otf...

what was the plan if someone had bet the flop?

fwiw i think u played it fine tho i'm betting flop

Haha, with the exception of folding I meant!!

Yeah my decision to check was heavily reg dependant (lol live poker) and in a vacuum i'd just bet flop also vs two good regs.

My plan on the flop was primarily going to be to check call. Would like further discussion before I expand on that as I don't want to sway opinion.

C/C is the worst option IMO. If I'm 3 betting this pre then I'm definitely not checking this flop. Check raise is second best and check call just seems to weak to bare.

This being live though I would put a huge emphasis on who I was in the pot with what is the likelihood they will bet if I check. If you're pretty sure they're tilting and will bet then I have no problem with a check/shove

C/R is the best option given stack sizes if you think there is a good chance someone will bet because you can raise most of your stack, you won't like many turns and you are out of position.

C/C is the worst by far. If you want to do this for balance purposes, then you need to be more deep.

Bet the flop will never be a mistake.

Tibo, come on, you've broken the rules there Papito 😗

3 betting this hand is -EV

^^^ here's your answer. give better reads and you'll get better answers

To be honest I thin spot is close and it's a spot where knowing def best option will provide a good edge in games. In skeptical about saying anything really cos London regs might read etc. Interested in the ^^poster expanding on the 3bet being -EV as a friend of mine said that Oddsen had told him to not 3bet hands like this when deep in a vacuum

why do you think its a 3 bet hand?

I think it's an exploitable spot you can take live through knowing your opponents. Deep online I wouldn't take same pre flop line and equally in a game of tough regs I wouldn't. As I stated in OP, I decided to 3bet here because I figured it was worthwhile for value against the two regs in question. After all, it's a pretty hand, what's the worst that could happen.

I think 3bet pre is alright against a weaker line up. As far as the flop play goes, I think check calling here is ideal. I think it's a good spot against weaker players to have hands even as strong as J10 in our CC range as well as hands like you have here. I think the turn play is questionable giving the fact that if someone does GII here you're almost always in pretty bad shape IMO.

i´m all for exploitable play, but this is button clicking... one day we are exploiting them by playing a pretty but equity wise marginal hand "for value" oop bc they apparently suck, then we flop gin and somehow check bc balance? which one is it?
call pre
as played pot flop, whatever...

Betting flop fine, checking flop fine imo. Dislike check raise basically. Me and tibok basically just discussed hand and disagreed on line so figured why not post it.

Hmm dislike all of this basically. I think the hand is good to have in our check call range because it's good to balanced with hands as weak as JTxx, which is what we should have a lot of the time when we check call etc. On the turn id say it's extremely likely we have best hand, obviously Btn never has us beat and it's highly unlikely villain in the middle does too.

I was playing while I wrote that and totally misread the flop on this hand. I agree with you 100 percent now after looking over it correctly. I was talking as if J10 was the nuts on that flop, totally misread it

Have to bet the flop imo. So many hands that peel we have crushed. I wouldnt pot it though. Online I might check.

Check-call with a bare open-ended straight draw oop? In which book do they recommend that? Or is it to balance?

Tibo, come on you. You naughty little Frenchman

This thread examplifies extremely well why HSPLO is dead.

As for the hand I think betting and c/calling is both ok, but I prefer the former

How come? Edges too small?

ya I'm curious too apo^

As far as the actual hand goes, how can this 3bet ever be bad against the given opponents? Curious to know from those who think 3betting is bad here.

I think mixing it up between betting and checking is fine depending on how much you think either one of these players will be stabbing on the flop. If you think these players aren't stabbing a bunch I'd probably bet around the 2/3 pot range. Since your hand is full of blockers to hands that are betting the flop, I think this flop gets checked around a bunch when these guys aren't stabbing which isn't great for you. If these are the type of players to check back j109x ish hands then obv you don't want to be checking this flop giving them a free card with those type of hands. Another advantage to betting is they may shove these type of hands thinking they have good fold equity and wanting to take down the pot without showdown.

If they are the type to stab, then I think checking the flop may often be the best play. its a great check pot spot given stack sizes, and you are doing great vs a lot of wraps they should be bet-getting it in with, although those hands should be ripping it over ur flop bet anyway.

I think the flop in general is pretty close between checking and betting, and neither can really be that bad depending on your opponents tendencies.

I know you don't want to talk about the turn but I actually love your play here even though I would never think to do it in game.