Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Nick
1) Rake
We have posted on PLO rake here.
My earlier reply
here, which is still valid.
Since I'm a stubborn bonehead, I'll keep hammering on things that I believe are wrong.
Pokerstars provides an exchange for players to trade probabitilies, and players do this to the best of their skills. Much like securities exchanges. Securities exchanges charge a higher fee for derivatives because of higher fixed costs, not because they are more exciting and for higher profit potential. It's not up to exchange to decide their pricing based on these characteristics. Excitement for one, is subjective. And with higher profit potential comes higher risk, which really doesn't justify higher profits for the counterparty (Pokerstars) which bears no risk whatsoever with the money that is on the play. (Regulatory risk is another issue, players should not be paying for that.) It's the players who carry all the risk, both positive and negative.
This brings me to the fact that raking one game 2x more than the other on same platform where both games are played at, is ludicrous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by napsus
some graphical illustration of the situation
NL100 w/ 100% rakeback
PLO100 w/100% rakeback
If these graphs strike as "just fine, since the winrates are close to each other post-rake" (or similar), I really don't know what to tell you. This is PLO100 where you start to see first players who get majority of their income via poker so the competition gets tougher fast.
Based on
this, Pokerstars rakes PLO10 games 19.5 bb/100 per average player, so roughly 117 bb/100 for an average 6max table. It was mentioned that 2/3 players are 1-tabling, 1/3 playing more tables at once. Let's assume that the 1-tablers get rakeback equivalent of 15% (which might be optimistic since I doubt everyone even knows about VIP store let alone use them 100% or get best value) and 24% for the rest.
Based on these assumptions Pokerstars still banks in ~95 bb/100 at on average PLO10 table, after giving the players their bonuses/points. That means almost one full 100bb buy-in disappears from the table every 100 hands!
No wonder they want faster games.
At an average PLO100 table Pokerstars banks in ~58 bb/100, based on assumptions that 1-tabler gets 20% rakeback equivalent and that the "multitablerer" gets 30%. Again, "never assume anything, only leads to assumptions", but we don't have the numbers so we have to play an educated guessing game.
Sustainable PLO environment? Not in my opinion.
If PLO is a tiny part of the market, why kill it before it even gets really going?
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeri
With all this negativaty , i would like to emphasis that we really appreciate pokerstars. Your software is awesome, and there is a reason you stand out in comparison to the competition.
That being said, not commenting on rake at all is pretty ignorant. I used to advice kids new to poker/plo proper bankrollmanagent and start low and try to build up a bankroll. Nowadays i advice to take big risks and start as high as possible, if you want a serious shot at being a winning plo player. Low stake plo is just raked too hard.
+1
Software, security, support....wonderful job.
Being a market leader comes with responsilities regarding longevity and sustainability of the games.
You have to bake the cake before you can eat it. I feel like the PLO cake is not even in the oven yet and half of the dough is already eaten.
Last edited by napsus; 01-20-2013 at 02:39 AM.