Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-08-2015, 10:38 AM   #201
muttaja
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Estonia
Posts: 62
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

High squeeze could be related to card sharing...?
Serega and Fedor for example have high 4bet too. Its much easier to 4bet-GII if you know you the money will stay in family.

Last edited by muttaja; 06-08-2015 at 10:48 AM.
muttaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 10:41 AM   #202
yrmom
Pooh-Bah
 
yrmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: CardRunners & NutBlocker
Posts: 3,921
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafiore View Post

N@T@L@T -Cheater, 99,9%sure.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

no.
yrmom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 10:42 AM   #203
alexo18
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,409
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Natalat wasnt a bot 1 year ago, played recently with her and still had some leaks she used to. So i dont think is a bot.

Mdu a bot? No, he got coached and got better.

Fedor cant be a bot , i would be extremely shocked.




Also some people lose to this bots, i suggest doing a better homework and exploit really obvious leaks they have.


And yes , pokerstars should take bot issue as a priority , and refund policies need an improvement. Guy MA high stakes or bot multitabling low stakes can take few hundred k out of ps economy and people only get cents back.
alexo18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 10:51 AM   #204
Schwein
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Numbers dont lie
Posts: 115
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafiore View Post
for example watch N@T@L@Ts zoom/last few months stats instead of zoom and normal tables, he was palyin very different way at first when he appeard and i played lot HU with him too when he was new. samanta81 changed his game style verymuch also when he jumped to zoom tables from normal tables, lot of minbets and donkbets and stuff what he did not do in normal tables. IpusMyPrius was a huge nit long time when he came to pokerstars, and his style was veryvery differerent when got banned. there is still a human(s) behind this everything and knows his bots cant play exactly same way every hand, same thing as pros are balancing their ranges. same thing on MDU so can you filter his databise too or something?they both are still playing verybad and shouold not be playing as reg in 500zoom.
N@T@L@T and MDU are totally legit. You can filter the stats on Russian PTR for last 3-6-12 months. N@T@L@T and MDU indeed play now different then they used to, they are even further now from the 24 bot accounts using my distance definition and they were very different to begin with it even. The bot accounts look pretty much the same regardless if filtered for 6 or 12 months when looking at postflop stats. Seriously stop accusing this 2 players over and over. Just stop.

Some of you say that the players on my list changed their style a lot at some points, becoming LAGGY instead of NITTY and vice versa. That is not exactly what happened, Samanta for example reduced his 3bet to almost 0, but its just blowing smoke into our eyes. The rest of his postflop stats remains super consistent when comparing 2014 with 2015, they are actually so super consistent its scary. I did the same check for my Schweine stats and those tend to drift, I am starting to play different in many spots where I dont even try to play different, I am using my own head and its impossible to do always the same stuff.

Schwein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:06 AM   #205
Pastafiore
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 140
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by yrmom View Post
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

no.
watch his game in zoom500, not even close as same as on normal tables before.

and here is few facts of FEDOR, samanta, prius, emperor and rockfella for example: they all are cbettin MORE ON MULTIWAY POTS, than HU. that is the thing you can explain only 2different ways, they are braindead, or they dont play fair. and if they are winning regs, i think 2nd option is more likely.

i could be wrong on MDU:s situation but id like if pokerstars team checks his game and stuff trought too..

this bots are also stabbing very much, making blufs on flop with air in spots what does not make any sense, not even a little, and you cant explain those by taking a balance card on desk.

they are 3betting and 4betting only bug cards/big pairs, and they are dominating our hands way too often if we watch closer stats and hands.

samanta81, fedor, prius, rockfella, emperor : their game styles are identic, and 4 of them started on stars very close same time.

and you should still remember that there is a human after all behind everything this so he knows he have to keep this bots on balance by loosing with one or two accounts, changing from normal tables to zoom and stuff, tonet get busted. if you think yourselves to that situation you do money with a bot, would you just let them autopilot everydraw and never change anything? im still 100%sure about that fedor is a bot and 99% in N@T@L@T situation. chatting or "tilting" or anything like that proves only that there is not a bot behind the bots, there is a clever human.

Last edited by Pastafiore; 06-08-2015 at 11:14 AM.
Pastafiore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:08 AM   #206
freewilly12
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 270
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post

Some of you say that the players on my list changed their style a lot at some points, becoming LAGGY instead of NITTY and vice versa. That is not exactly what happened, Samanta for example reduced his 3bet to almost 0, but its just blowing smoke into our eyes. The rest of his postflop stats remains super consistent when comparing 2014 with 2015, they are actually so super consistent its scary.
I actually didn't refer to your list of accounts. However I suspected those accounts to be part of a bot ring.
freewilly12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:09 AM   #207
priv
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 97
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

regarding fedor - i've played with him in all constellations from HU to 6 max on ante and no ante tables. i'd like to think a winning bot like that does not exist.

on the other hand one peculiar thing about him was he wrote things like "nh" a few times after i won a big pot (not every time) which is kind of unseen between regs who don't know each other at all. i thought of it as russian sportsmanship could also be the perception of some russian coder how poker table etiquette should be. idk
priv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:17 AM   #208
ChicagoJoey
Papi
 
ChicagoJoey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: I AM GTO
Posts: 14,354
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I think many of the stats posted show some pretty damning evidence that Fedor is, he is the top winner at 400 ring and near the top at 200 ring on RPTR.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is the ring leader of the group. Battles at 5/10 sometimes, other times puts the bot on.

Regarding MDU being a bot Pasta. Unless it is some very involved plan by him which after talking with him a bunch on Skype and also having him on a podcast, his dealings with GramGubo in the Polish poker world and also briefly on here and his uber hot streak where he tried to run it up to as high as he could but it did not go so well then I don't think so. Obviously things can change with people/accounts tho and at this point who really ****ing knows.

I've been on a deep dive on RPTR looking at every possible tab/stat for every regular 200+ for the last few hours. Not in line with the signs posted ITT but sure are some interesting winning styles out there for huge crushers that no one else is doing
ChicagoJoey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:19 AM   #209
Schwein
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Numbers dont lie
Posts: 115
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by freewilly12 View Post
I actually didn't refer to your list of accounts. However I suspected those accounts to be part of a bot ring.
I was replying in general, the preflop stats are the easiest to change and not that important for winning/losing as long as those remain within a reasonable range. That being said, postflop its always the same stats for all accounts.
Schwein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:25 AM   #210
freewilly12
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 270
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post
I was replying in general, the preflop stats are the easiest to change and not that important for winning/losing as long as those remain within a reasonable range. That being said, postflop its always the same stats for all accounts.
I agree.
freewilly12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:34 AM   #211
TopPair2Pair
veteran
 
TopPair2Pair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 3,309
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

1) Organizers in question need to be criminally prosecuted
2) Gaming commission needs to be made aware,via player findings,which is the first step towards this imo.
3) Stars should be held accountable to refund based on their negligence to act regardless of how much $ is left in accounts. In Banking... this is called a regulatory fine.
4) Appropriate authorities should be contacted by players, if stars/gaming commission fail to take action. Rinse & Repeat.

Also, how about a couple of what if scenarios.

1) What if stars knew about this a long time ago - it makes sense to ramp up the PLO rake as a scenario like this is the "end of the world" if PLO becomes bigger than Holdem? Given dead card situation in plo in the event of dead relative cards.
2) What if, a similar scenario is going on in Holdem pools as well?

Lastly, it makes sense that bots+colluding seems impossible to code as pure decision based system, but a simple human bot override event would not be that hard.

Also, on the SQL,Coding front. try using some of the freelancing sites out there, odesk, elance, etc. You can literally get anyone to code anything on these sites for exceptional value if you can provide explicit instructions.
TopPair2Pair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:34 AM   #212
dankness3
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,447
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

This is actually insane.

I got wind of this when I saw Joey tweeted that Ipushmyprius was confirmed a bot and banned. The first thing that came to mind was that he and another reg would always be playing at the same time, late at night, and always at the same tables. Someone mentioned RockafellaJ and I'm pretty sure that was it, I'm sure others can confirm because these 2 always played at the same time.

They both played aggro/weird styles and I def thought something was suspicious but didn't think they would be that obvious to collude by always playing together. In addition I thought they both kind of sucked so continued to play with them a ton. Makes a **** ton of sense that they were bots using some kind of hole card sharing software but pretty scary it took them so long to be caught cuz they played all the ****** time together.

As for some of the others, I've played a lot with Fedor. At first I thought, no way he could be a bot he plays way too crazy and he does tons of stupid weird ****. It also seems like he tilts but upon thinking back on it I have 21k hands with him and I can't really remember any distinct times it was obvious he was tilting. One of the strangest things is that I really think Fedor is awful, but he is one of the biggest winners at midstakes. Obv this is not evidence at all but I've always thought it's weird he wins because he plays strangely.

I've played a lot with seregaxx as well and as with Fedor I thought no way at first this guy could be a bot. He is the craziest of all the mid stakes regs and plays a very different style from Fedor. However if these 2 were sharing hole cards it could perhaps explain a lot of weird hands which I have played with both them. I could see Samanta potentially being involved as well as I used to battle with him a ton at the regular tables but he has gotten a lot tighter since moving to zoom. All 3 def play different styles though from my experience.

One thing that's standing out to me is there was a period I played with him where I caught him bluffing on a ton of rivers. It was almost always in pots that were checked around on the turn and he would bet a small % of pot on the river, like 1/4 pot or something. He did it a bunch of times because I remember thinking, "wow, this is way too easy, hes just always bluffing with this sizing". I mention it now because it is a bit suspicious that a winning reg would keep making the same mistake when I was clearly snapping him off like every time. With that said I did see an increased trend in players trying to buy pots for "cheap" with small sizing's so this obviously could be nothing.

One of the big things that stands out to me about these players is that a lot of them if not all ran me over at first. If you play low-midstakes your generally not used to dealing with very aggressive regulars, so it you can be caught off guard by them. However with almost all of the suspected accounts, I remember after playing with them for a bit I felt like they actually sucked, but were just doing weird stuff I wasn't used to. I know that Fedor, Samanta and Seregaxx have all adjusted vs me, mostly Fedor, which is pretty ****** scary if they are bots.

I always imagined a bot would play super straightforward and basic, just like mistake free poker. If they are making bots that are playing as crazy as fedor, man that is a scary thought. Whether or not these players are bots, they are clearly taking advantage the general lack of aggression at the low-midstakes games. I'm not suprised someone like Seregaxx is winning at 200 PLO because there is so much weak tight play there frankly he should be winning. But the fact that they are all crushing to the degree they are is certainly suspicious. I would suspect at the very least some type of hole card sharing software, but this is of course just speculation...

Man WTF
dankness3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:42 AM   #213
KingOfSwings
centurion
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 109
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by muttaja View Post
Great work guys. Too bad Stars doesnt do his own part of the job...
Stars now has a big debt (thanx amaya), these bots are good for rake. You do the math.
KingOfSwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:45 AM   #214
GotBluffing
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 138
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopPair2Pair View Post
1) Organizers in question need to be criminally prosecuted
2) Gaming commission needs to be made aware,via player findings,which is the first step towards this imo.
3) Stars should be held accountable to refund based on their negligence to act regardless of how much $ is left in accounts. In Banking... this is called a regulatory fine.
4) Appropriate authorities should be contacted by players, if stars/gaming commission fail to take action. Rinse & Repeat.

Also, how about a couple of what if scenarios.

1) What if stars knew about this a long time ago - it makes sense to ramp up the PLO rake as a scenario like this is the "end of the world" if PLO becomes bigger than Holdem? Given dead card situation in plo in the event of dead relative cards.
2) What if, a similar scenario is going on in Holdem pools as well?

Lastly, it makes sense that bots+colluding seems impossible to code as pure decision based system, but a simple human bot override event would not be that hard.

Also, on the SQL,Coding front. try using some of the freelancing sites out there, odesk, elance, etc. You can literally get anyone to code anything on these sites for exceptional value if you can provide explicit instructions.
Exactly my thoughts, however, since most of the accounts are russian there is pretty much no way to make them criminally prosecuted.
I think we should make a separate thread to discuss future actions and elaborate on potential solutions for the problem.
GotBluffing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:47 AM   #215
shimmy
adept
 
shimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London England innit.
Posts: 909
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

ok, I now have a sql query to extract hand histories from a PT4 db where 2 or more of these players are on the same table.

only finds 1813 hands in my 1m hand 2015 db, but will run it on my historical db later and create some new databases.

any use to anyone else?
shimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:51 AM   #216
freewilly12
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 270
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSwings View Post
Stars now has a big debt (thanx amaya), these bots are good for rake. You do the math.
They are crushing too hard to be good for the rake.
freewilly12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:52 AM   #217
GotBluffing
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 138
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSwings View Post
Stars now has a big debt (thanx amaya), these bots are good for rake. You do the math.
This is a flawed thinking. Amaya is a public company that has both shareholders and debt holders. Of course they need to serve their debts, but if a bot scandal this big comes out on any proper news channel/website, Amaya share price will drop substantially.
Bots are a huge threat for their business imo, and I believe they are underestimating the problem (just as most of us did before reading this thread).
GotBluffing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:59 AM   #218
papahook
newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 25
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmy View Post
only finds 1813 hands in my 1m hand 2015 db, but will run it on my historical db later and create some new databases.
Have you played 1m hands in 2015 already?
papahook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 12:01 PM   #219
shimmy
adept
 
shimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London England innit.
Posts: 909
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by papahook View Post
Have you played 1m hands in 2015 already?
yeah, about half are at 100 zoom and 50 zoom though where the bots don't play so the real sample i'm extracting from is ~ 500k hands
shimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 12:08 PM   #220
jas
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 209
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

File: HH20150527 Diotima #3 - $1-$2 - USD Pot Limit Omaha.txt
PokerStars Zoom Hand #135905864585: Omaha Pot Limit ($1/$2) - 2015/05/27 15:37:59 MT [2015/05/27 17:37:59 ET]
Table 'Diotima' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: imissFender ($678.46 in chips)
Seat 2: LOLZOROFLMAO ($345.72 in chips)
Seat 3: nicnic92 ($131.07 in chips)
Seat 4: jasjas11 ($408.89 in chips)
Seat 5: Flowerbunny ($200 in chips)
Seat 6: Samanta81 ($326.06 in chips)
LOLZOROFLMAO: posts small blind $1
nicnic92: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jasjas11 [Ts 7d 8s 9d]
jasjas11: raises $4 to $6
Flowerbunny: folds
Samanta81: folds
imissFender: raises $15 to $21
LOLZOROFLMAO: raises $50 to $71
nicnic92: folds
jasjas11: folds
imissFender: calls $50
*** FLOP *** [Kc 4s 4d]
LOLZOROFLMAO: bets $40.35
imissFender: calls $40.35
*** TURN *** [Kc 4s 4d] [5h]
LOLZOROFLMAO: checks
imissFender: bets $70
LOLZOROFLMAO: calls $70
*** RIVER *** [Kc 4s 4d 5h] [8c]
LOLZOROFLMAO: checks
imissFender: bets $183.95
LOLZOROFLMAO: calls $164.37 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($19.58) returned to imissFender
*** SHOW DOWN ***
imissFender: shows [8d Qh Jd Th] (two pair, Eights and Fours)
LOLZOROFLMAO: shows [4h Ad 3s Ah] (three of a kind, Fours)
LOLZOROFLMAO collected $696.64 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $699.44 | Rake $2.80
Board [Kc 4s 4d 5h 8c]
Seat 1: imissFender (button) showed [8d Qh Jd Th] and lost with two pair, Eights and Fours
Seat 2: LOLZOROFLMAO (small blind) showed [4h Ad 3s Ah] and won ($696.64) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 3: nicnic92 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: jasjas11 folded before Flop
Seat 5: Flowerbunny folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Samanta81 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


(lolzor has 4bet range of 4%)

pretty cool and smart play for a bot

lolzor's range is mostly aces here so it becomes less relevant whether samantha folded a king but im curious as to whether he did because their hole card sharing system may have influenced fenders play.

pokerstars should look through hands where these accounts in question are at the same tables
jas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 12:11 PM   #221
shimmy
adept
 
shimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London England innit.
Posts: 909
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

^ when i call them down in these spots they always have KKxx :/
shimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 12:23 PM   #222
jas
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 209
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

File: HH20150123 Diotima #15 - $1-$2 - USD Pot Limit Omaha.txt
PokerStars Zoom Hand #129163103221: Omaha Pot Limit ($1/$2) - 2015/01/23 10:26:33 WET [2015/01/23 5:26:33 ET]
Table 'Diotima' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: barog88 ($182.04 in chips)
Seat 2: ljugarn ($934.38 in chips)
Seat 3: jasjas11 ($200 in chips)
Seat 4: pla5te ($472.21 in chips)
Seat 5: 4somniare ($272.95 in chips)
Seat 6: NinoPino ($1481.45 in chips)
ljugarn: posts small blind $1
jasjas11: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jasjas11 [Td Ah 2d Jh]
pla5te: folds
4somniare: raises $4 to $6
NinoPino: calls $6
barog88: folds
ljugarn: folds
jasjas11: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [7c Tc 9c]
jasjas11: checks
4somniare: bets $10
NinoPino: raises $26 to $36
jasjas11: folds
4somniare: calls $26
*** TURN *** [7c Tc 9c] [As]
4somniare: checks
NinoPino: bets $64
4somniare: raises $151 to $215
NinoPino: raises $151 to $366
4somniare: calls $15.95 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($135.05) returned to NinoPino
*** FIRST RIVER *** [7c Tc 9c As] [Qs]
*** SECOND RIVER *** [7c Tc 9c As] [8d]
*** FIRST SHOW DOWN ***
4somniare: shows [Kc 5c 7s 6s] (a flush, King high)
NinoPino: shows [5h 9d 8c Ac] (a flush, Ace high)
NinoPino collected $275.05 from pot
*** SECOND SHOW DOWN ***
4somniare: shows [Kc 5c 7s 6s] (a flush, King high)
NinoPino: shows [5h 9d 8c Ac] (a flush, Ace high)
NinoPino collected $275.05 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $552.90 | Rake $2.80
Hand was run twice
FIRST Board [7c Tc 9c As Qs]
SECOND Board [7c Tc 9c As 8d]
Seat 1: barog88 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ljugarn (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: jasjas11 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: pla5te folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 4somniare showed [Kc 5c 7s 6s] and lost with a flush, King high, and lost with a flush, King high
Seat 6: NinoPino showed [5h 9d 8c Ac] and won ($275.05) with a flush, Ace high, and won ($275.05) with a flush, Ace high



awful play for someone up so much.

Last edited by jas; 06-08-2015 at 12:35 PM.
jas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 12:26 PM   #223
shimmy
adept
 
shimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London England innit.
Posts: 909
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

yeah i've seen all sorts of completely bizarre / non-standard / plain bad stuff from somniare and some of the other accounts and frankly i am shocked they are up so much, it really makes me think there is something else going on.
shimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 12:29 PM   #224
Pastafiore
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 140
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

why accounts are not frozen yet even temporary? i just saw emperor playing for example.
Pastafiore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 12:30 PM   #225
Pastafiore
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 140
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

and y somniare is a bot.
Pastafiore is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online