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Old 06-08-2015, 04:04 AM   #151
Lemay002
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafiore View Post

N@T@L@T -Cheater, 99,9%sure.

-at least one cheater you have forgot: MDUczuczukwe
Would like to hear more reasonning behing those 2.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:05 AM   #152
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Played these guys a lot particularly somanaire, sussain, Samantha and fender

All are amongst most aggressive players

I haven't seen them respond in chat. Have tried chatting to somanaire on several occasions.

The numbers provided by OP look pretty damning

Will look through notes and stats
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:07 AM   #153
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Meh wouldnt surprise me if they went down all the way to PLO 25... Alot easier to stay under the radar
I guess Zoom is not the target bc it's tougher to realize those results.
Also i guess some accounts managed to achieve SNE ?!
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:21 AM   #154
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by xaxa View Post
Very nice Job OP! Sick & tilting stuff
I dont even want to know what happens on smaller sites...
According to the card sharing: can you figure out/ filter these accounts and check there winnings with K high flushes?
This is far beyond anything I can do, I dont datamine.

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Schwein,

If they are card sharing the zoom pools; i expect many accounts on all the limits.

Have you checked out some zoom grinders of the 500 pool? Or does that one seems less affected?
Of course, I have checked everyone I could from zoom 500, no one even remotely suspicious. From my list a few accounts played a few K hands on zoom 500 and SusaaNiN probably played around 300K hands there (189k hands on Russian PTR but they miss alot for zoom). He didnt do well, -4.2BB winrate.

As for the card sharing I really dont know. That is just a hypothesis. From people that posted here TrollAcount has a really large DB. He provided me with some very valuable screenshots.

A large DB alone isnt worth anything. The only way to find out if they are card sharing is to create a DB with hands where there were always 2 or more of them at the same table. I dont know how to do it using HEM, I am sure its doable but requires some SQL coding skills.

Once you prepare such DB of hands you can check how much above EV they are and calculate the Sigma, if its above 4 then they are sharing without a doubt.

From my limited knowledge of how bots are actually programmed, the non adjustable GTO like bots are rather hard to program to alter they play based on shared hole card information. And trying to implement such solution complicates everything. They would have to communicate at all times etc. The playing schedules of 4somniare and SuSaaNiN almost dont overlap. There was only one bot on PL50 regular tables and he did very well. There were 2 bots on PL100 zoom and after one of them was gone the other continued to do well. I am rather sure they dont share (I might be terribly wrong on this one).

I have created an alias for the in my DB and they are a lot below EV. (its irrelevant, just stating a fact)

EDIT: Sharing holecards greatly increases the risk of getting caught, why take risks if they are crushing anyway.

Last edited by Schwein; 06-08-2015 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:21 AM   #155
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

fu pokerstars
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:22 AM   #156
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I'm pretty sure N@t@l@t or however you spell his name is not a cheater. He's tilted at me regularly and talked sht. He's also really bad at poker same with MDU. They do not play the same as all the other guys in question. Honestly after playing the absurd amount of hands with these guys this is making sososo much sense and at this point seems like 100% which is pretty scary. Hopefully Pokerstars will be able to keep tighter tabs on this in the future.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:30 AM   #157
Schwein
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Please stop this N@T@L@T nonsense already, I have checked him in every possible way and measured the distance between SuSaaNiN and N@T@L@T its 979.47, go to post #142 and look at the last column and then look at the first 12 columns.

I am posting account number 24: Pokeradikted

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Old 06-08-2015, 04:30 AM   #158
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

So sick.. i played against these accounts every **** day from 08.2014- 12.2014 ..
There was like 3of the cheater regs on the same table with me on plo200.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:39 AM   #159
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

As requested I have checked MDUczuczukwe, he is totally legit. The distance between SuSaaNiN and MDU is 537.4 (for explanation look post #123). The distance between all the bot like accounts on zoom is less then 100.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:41 AM   #160
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Oink View Post
That was one of the things Grethe and I noticed when analyzing some of the accounts that have been banned. They ran crazy above AIEV. I had 110k hands in my db in total with 6 accounts that is now banned, and they ran 130BI above AIEV or 11.8bb/100. Sure, thats not impossible, but its definetely likely that they shared holecards somehow
What does running under/above AIEV have to do with bots or card sharing or anything like that?
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:42 AM   #161
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Two important points guys:

1) DATA, we need data. Stop the guessing games and lets help each other building solid case. Let's compare the suspected guys in any possible way - that's the best proof we can get.

2) This looks really, really scary. The more stats and filters I see across the datasets just make me more and more sure that something shady is going on. Not all the mentioned guys are bots, but the patterns are so significant aligned on so many parameters that it can't be a coincidence - especially looking at the stats for other solid high volume regs.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:44 AM   #162
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by papahook View Post
What does running under/above AIEV have to do with bots or card sharing or anything like that?
Discarding cards has HUGE impact on winrates. According to the calculations we made during the first case 10bb/100 is easily possible.
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Old 06-08-2015, 05:18 AM   #163
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

nice work men
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Old 06-08-2015, 05:21 AM   #164
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

good work and ty to OP and everyone else involved <3
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Old 06-08-2015, 05:48 AM   #165
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Sry for derail. Is there any data out there for Party?
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Old 06-08-2015, 05:56 AM   #166
muttaja
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Great work guys. Too bad Stars doesnt do his own part of the job...
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:00 AM   #167
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

woww... May be it will help? Seregaxx is very old bot. Since 2005y or earlier.
http://i.imgur.com/ohZVtsf.png
http://www.sharkscope.com
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:04 AM   #168
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

This is so scary and depressing. ****.

Good job guys.
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:15 AM   #169
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Ohh boy this is getting sicker and sicker

Good job OP and others, keep up the good work
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:15 AM   #170
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by 22pokerhu View Post
woww... May be it will help? Seregaxx is very old bot. Since 2005y or earlier.
http://i.imgur.com/ohZVtsf.png
http://www.sharkscope.com
I think most of these accounts were legit when they started. Then they contacted and had some kind of software and start colluding brutally. (card sharing, semi bot stuff etc..)
They have history at least not like topdog and companies thats why its so **** shocking.
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:29 AM   #171
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Schwein View Post
Lets make it 19 altogether. I am posting a new account SSELrive together with RockfellaJ account which looks like his carbon copy. RockfellaJ was banned or vanished in February 2015.



The distance between RockfellaJ and SSELrive is 51.34 (as defined in post #123)

SSelrive also passes my second test (described in post #101). I am putting him with all the others on one spreadsheet.




I know he is losing overall according to Russian PTR, but has a solid 6bb/100 winrate on stakes 1/2 and 2/4

Wow man


We talk so much about the possibility of botting at PLO and usually act as if there isn't anything to be worried about. All of these 50plo, 100plo, 200/400plo guys were crushing and sometimes playing 3 (probably more) accounts at the same table at one time. Having to compete with bots at PLO 50 who are 10bb/100 + the rake i mean that is sick. And as someone said ITT, this has to be a big reason for people thinking the games are getting tougher. The same program has 10-20 accounts out there putting in hundreds of thousands of hands playing an aggressive winning style.

I want to see these regular table bots play the 10/20 games against droon and lautie but I think it would probably be naive to think that isn't already taking place right now.
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:30 AM   #172
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Seems like they have some software which shows them the folded cards of the guys who also use the software.
Can't come up with a better explaination yet since its still all so confusing tho, but agree with pasta that they cheated somehow
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:34 AM   #173
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

this is ****ing just lol

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Old 06-08-2015, 06:34 AM   #174
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by DonkPredat0r View Post
fu pokerstars
This. Their main goal is signing Ronaldo while we are getting ****ed daily.
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:35 AM   #175
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Researching the accounts that got banned/moved away in Feb/Mar this year, I found another similarity:

I play tight PF and pretty much every winning Reg adjusts to this fact by 3-betting me less than normal.
But all these accounts did not adjust at all and their 3b vs hero stat is pretty much the same as their overall 3b number.
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