Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them - Page 10 - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

watch his game in zoom500, not even close as same as on normal tables before.

and here is few facts of FEDOR, samanta, prius, emperor and rockfella for example: they all are cbettin MORE ON MULTIWAY POTS, than HU. that is the thing you can explain only 2different ways, they are braindead, or they dont play fair. and if they are winning regs, i think 2nd option is more likely.

i could be wrong on MDU:s situation but id like if pokerstars team checks his game and stuff trought too..

this bots are also stabbing very much, making blufs on flop with air in spots what does not make any sense, not even a little, and you cant explain those by taking a balance card on desk.

they are 3betting and 4betting only bug cards/big pairs, and they are dominating our hands way too often if we watch closer stats and hands.

samanta81, fedor, prius, rockfella, emperor : their game styles are identic, and 4 of them started on stars very close same time.

and you should still remember that there is a human after all behind everything this so he knows he have to keep this bots on balance by loosing with one or two accounts, changing from normal tables to zoom and stuff, tonet get busted. if you think yourselves to that situation you do money with a bot, would you just let them autopilot everydraw and never change anything? im still 100%sure about that fedor is a bot and 99% in N@T@L@T situation. chatting or "tilting" or anything like that proves only that there is not a bot behind the bots, there is a clever human.

Poker Stars, $1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36686541

Hero (BB): $438.81 (219.4 bb)
UTG: $89.06 (44.5 bb)
MP: $218.47 (109.2 bb)
CO: $357.28 (178.6 bb)
BTN: $169.80 (84.9 bb)
SB: $245.77 (122.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2

UTG raises to $6, MP folds, CO calls $6, BTN calls $6, SB folds, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($25) 7

(4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($25) A

(4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $17, BTN calls $17, Hero folds, UTG calls $17

River: ($76) Q

(3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Here for example is pretty braindead stab on turn from samantha

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:37 PM

#227

apo5tol

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,238

Please lets keep the discussion to accounts that are Actually under suspicion judging by the numbers and not just any aggro/non-standard somewhat winning reg.

I cant belive that Any bot, no matter what algorithm it uses would choose this hand to bluff with in this spot for example:

Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36686581

Hero (BTN): $764.23 (382.1 bb)
RaiseMyAhigh (SB): $420.43 (210.2 bb)
N@T@L@T (BB): $408.34 (204.2 bb)
PINGUWARRIOR (UTG): $200 (100 bb)
Samanta81 (MP): $246.99 (123.5 bb)
tracedyew (CO): $179.86 (89.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with K

3 folds, Hero raises to $5, RaiseMyAhigh folds, N@T@L@T raises to $16, Hero calls $11

Flop: ($33) Q

(2 players)
N@T@L@T bets $18.91, Hero calls $18.91

Turn: ($70.82) 3

(2 players)
N@T@L@T checks, Hero bets $44, N@T@L@T raises to $106.40, Hero calls $62.40

River: ($283.62) 7

(2 players)
N@T@L@T bets $267.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $267.03

Results: $817.68 pot ($2.80 rake)
Final Board: Q

Hero showed K

and won $814.88 ($406.54 net)
N@T@L@T showed J

and lost (-$408.34 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:39 PM

#228

Grethe

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,310

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy

ok, I now have a sql query to extract hand histories from a PT4 db where 2 or more of these players are on the same table.

only finds 1813 hands in my 1m hand 2015 db, but will run it on my historical db later and create some new databases.

any use to anyone else?

A SQL Query comparing AIEV when two of the suspected players where on the same tables would be very usefull.. I tried building that for the first case, but it wasn't possible with HEM2.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:40 PM

#229

Mig

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,933

Quote:

Originally Posted by apo5tol

3 folds, Hero raises to $5, RaiseMyAhigh folds, N@T@L@T raises to $16, Hero calls $11

Flop: ($33) Q

(2 players)
N@T@L@T bets $18.91, Hero calls $18.91

Turn: ($70.82) 3

(2 players)
N@T@L@T checks, Hero bets $44, N@T@L@T raises to $106.40, Hero calls $62.40

River: ($283.62) 7

(2 players)
N@T@L@T bets $267.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $267.03

Results: $817.68 pot ($2.80 rake)
Final Board: Q

Hero showed K

and won $814.88 ($406.54 net)
N@T@L@T showed J

and lost (-$408.34 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

That's a lot of commitment to win that hand.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:41 PM

#230

Pastafiore

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 143

Quote:

Originally Posted by petteriii

Here for example is pretty braindead stab on turn from samantha

emperor, fedor, samanta, prius, rockfella, all them are doing just like that kind of stabs especially multiway. lastest strange spot i remember was yesterday for example samanta was calling with KK97 without fd on AQQ board my cbet wich was way more than 50% of pot, on flop, 3way, 1player still behind. me and another player had nothing obv.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:42 PM

#231

jas

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 210

samantha doesnt 3bet anywhere near as much as the other accounts in my hand sample

samantha also went deep in the scoop main event

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:44 PM

#232

Kingantsi

stranger

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by apo5tol

3 folds, Hero raises to $5, RaiseMyAhigh folds, N@T@L@T raises to $16, Hero calls $11

Flop: ($33) Q

(2 players)
N@T@L@T bets $18.91, Hero calls $18.91

Turn: ($70.82) 3

(2 players)
N@T@L@T checks, Hero bets $44, N@T@L@T raises to $106.40, Hero calls $62.40

River: ($283.62) 7

(2 players)
N@T@L@T bets $267.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $267.03

Results: $817.68 pot ($2.80 rake)
Final Board: Q

Hero showed K

and won $814.88 ($406.54 net)
N@T@L@T showed J

and lost (-$408.34 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Samanta81 folded acxxx.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:45 PM

#233

Pastafiore

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 143

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas

samantha doesnt 3bet anywhere near as much as the other accounts in my hand sample

but he did, before he jumped to the zoom. his style was identic with prius, fedor, emperor and rockfella and others.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:47 PM

#234

bombonca

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,423

Individual hands like above prove absolutely nothing, we all made those plays countless times so lets focus on aggression stats and correlation between bots.

Cheers!

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:49 PM

#235

kelnel

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,718

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingantsi

Samanta81 folded acxxx.

this lol

right now samanta and sussaaasin casually playing 4 tbles zoom. i had to stop playing cause im getting paranoid whenever they are both at same table ( which happen often when you 4 zoom)

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:50 PM

#236

nwb123

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by apo5tol

3 folds, Hero raises to $5, RaiseMyAhigh folds, N@T@L@T raises to $16, Hero calls $11

Flop: ($33) Q

(2 players)
N@T@L@T bets $18.91, Hero calls $18.91

Turn: ($70.82) 3

(2 players)
N@T@L@T checks, Hero bets $44, N@T@L@T raises to $106.40, Hero calls $62.40

River: ($283.62) 7

(2 players)
N@T@L@T bets $267.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $267.03

Results: $817.68 pot ($2.80 rake)
Final Board: Q

Hero showed K

and won $814.88 ($406.54 net)
N@T@L@T showed J

and lost (-$408.34 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

would do this if he knew Samanta81 had Ac or 2 or more clubs

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:53 PM

#237

dankness3

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,439

I think it's important not to jump to conclusions too quickly, one way or the other. Like initially people popped in saying "so and so's not a bot because I've chatted with them". Individual hand histories are obviously helpful but what do these really prove other than these players do some awful ****?

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:54 PM

#238

freewilly12

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 301

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy

yeah, about half are at 100 zoom and 50 zoom though where the bots don't play so the real sample i'm extracting from is ~ 500k hands

I am pretty sure there are quite a lot of bots at 50& 100 zoom.

This is the most blatant example:

This is quite botty too:

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:56 PM

#239

locomi

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,314

Those individual HH's are obv very important proof if u are stars and can check if these weird plays very often happen when the folded cards by other suspected 'bots' include relevant blockers

Quote

06-08-2015 , 12:59 PM

#240

dankness3

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,439

Quote:

Originally Posted by locomi

Those individual HH's are obv very important proof if u are stars and can check if these weird plays very often happen when the folded cards by other suspected 'bots' include relevant blockers

yes this is really good point I meant these individual hand histories aren't that important in proving people are not bots, obviously could be extremely damning if other suspected players had certain hole cards.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:00 PM

#241

nwb123

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 83

I just wonder why none of the accused players came out to say I am that player and I am not a bot and I can prove it. nobody...

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:05 PM

#242

locomi

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,314

Quote:

Originally Posted by dankness3

yes. If they have done this it's really embarrasing to say the least for stars, since u'd expect they would be able to uncover this pretty easily. Especially when many of these players have been reported numerous times before.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:11 PM

#243

nwb123

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by locomi

the problem is that the guys who are investigating it will not be too good at PLO/poker and will not know much about blockers, etc. I have personally worked for one of the biggest poker companies and know the guys just use the tools they have for bot detection and look at some hands to find a pretty obvious collusion like folding the best hand or raise folding a very weak hand in a weird spot. They will not be able to analyze a PLO hand like you or me, doubt they will even know that it matters that a player had an ace blocker

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:12 PM

#244

KrachBummEnte

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 515

It's beyond me how they can still be playing right now. Stars should immediately freeze accounts and block cashouts.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:17 PM

#245

TianYuan

adept

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 909

These random hhs being posted seem to mostly detract from the more legitimate concerns in this thread. Also, i dont find 4somniare being a big winner all that suspicious really... yeah he makes plays i dont get sometimes but mostly he just seems to abuse the **** out of people overfolding flop and turn with some very exploitative range constructions?

Not saying that's evidence against him being a bot, just that i dont think he'd need holecard sharing to win.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:18 PM

#246

shimmy

adept

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 909

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grethe

A SQL Query comparing AIEV when two of the suspected players where on the same tables would be very usefull.. I tried building that for the first case, but it wasn't possible with HEM2.

working on it now, but really don't have a big enough sample for it to be useful, only 3.5k relevant hands even including my 2014 db (most of them didn't play zoom last year, right)?

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:19 PM

#247

Pastafiore

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 143

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwb123

+1, have been thinking of that many times too.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:19 PM

#248

locomi

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,314

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwb123

yes, and if this is true for Stars security it is highly unfortunate, hopefully this thread can push towards change in this matter regardless of outcome. Have OP's been in touch with stars and layed out the different possibilities very simply for the Support to show them where they should look? Will it help if more people email stars about this?

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:21 PM

#249

shimmy

adept

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 909

I emailed Stars this morning with a link to this thread and asking them to confirm they were investigating, haven't had a reply yet.

Think you're being a bit harsh on their security staff, most of them will be pretty experienced poker players.

Quote

06-08-2015 , 01:21 PM

#250

naggeri

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 957

Can someone check squeeze situations?
When some of susp regs. was in the pot with someone other and other susp.reg squeezed.
Those HHs will be relevant first of all.

Quote

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