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Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts?

11-24-2016 , 09:56 AM
The game is $5/$5 with a $10 straddle UTG, the 10 is going around the table without question and does pretty much everyday in this game
This hand I'm in the $10
given my stack is only 92 straddles before the hand and everyone at the table covers, I'm not super pumped to straddle but hey, to my right though is one of the three baccarat degen's in the game in the bb, he's probably the best of the three though, he typically shows up in big pots with the venerable nuts all the time, but at least he 'had the nuts when he got it in' he'll tell you.
The small blind is probably the tightest player at the table, he plays pretty well though for a guy who wouldn't play 30% of hands, I have a some history with him in NL 2/5, 5/5 and 5/10 he's a decent TAG in those games.
The button is an older reg, he will check 100% of the time you let him no matter what game, stakes, street, position or holding, he can read hands somewhat ok I guess I have a bit more history with him than the SB again mostly in NL 2/5-10/20
I've talked a little poker with him and if he ever needed a stake for small stakes live I'd probably put him in 1/3 or 2/5 and not be worried about my investment, that said I'd bet he's got at least 4X my net worth and I'm doing ok!

The game is 7 handed on a friday night/ early hours of Saturday
2 players call the my $10 straddle
the cutoff raises to $50 she's one of the baccarat degen's she's the least competent player at the table imo and probably the biggest degen, she isn't asain, the BB is if that matters to you, about 15 minutes prior to this hand I lost most of my 1st buy in to the Cutoff when she woke up with AAxx vs my double suited KKxx she'd repot'd a guy pre to 200ish, 2 people called in front me it was the best spot I'd yet seen so I jammed 600ish in pre, she was the only caller and her AA held up

I'd been in the game for about 3 hours prior to the hand in question, I was in for $2k the game with $925 left in front of me, I hadn't really being getting hands and if I did the flop turn and river were no help.
The game had improved a fair bit since punting the first thou, 3 regular winners had just left and been replaced by the BB fresh from a baccarat table.

The Button & BB call 50, at this point it's irrelevant I've got Q Qd 7d 2d I'm calling the extra 40 with pretty much any 4 cards given degen 3 and mid 20's reg to my left will likely toss in an extra 40 too, degen 3 does 20's reg folds.

We're 5 ways to a flop $260 in the pot.
Flop is Jd 10b 5d
SB & BB check I bet $180 I want to thin the field, cutoff might raise or call me with a worse, also if I checked the cutoff would most likely have cbet bet full pot I'm pot controlling a bit. also me donking might lead the button and SB to folding out decent equity which is something they've done and complained about doing in the past.
The cutoff folds button calls, sb folds bb calls. As BB puts out the flop call I'm starting to dislike my line, my immediate thought is 'oh I should have check folded a multi way pot or check called a cutoff cbet if folded to me, maybe over call one caller'
If I'd taken a little longer before betting I might've realised the total lack of clean turn cards for my hand.

but hey we're onto the turn now 3 way $540 in the pot.
I have $695 behind, BB has 750ish behind and button covers both of us.
The turn is the Qh, so diamonds remain the only flush draw, but I have 3 of them, I think it's likely one of the callers has a couple too.
I've made top set, but I hate it.
BB checks. Now I should point out I do keep track of pot size during hands and work out bet sizing on my own I never just say pot or asked the dealer the pot, you might say I bet like an NL player.
So I bet $260, Button tanks, when he tanks I've only ever seen him fold or call, it's probably 60% fold 40% call, if he was to raise he'd raise relatively quickly, he sometimes quickly calls or quickly folds too.
Button tank calls.
BB announces All in!

So I have $435 behind, the effective main pot back to me now is $1495 at the time I calculated it to $1500.
I take a fair bit of time to act most of it tbh was just me quietly lamenting life, the BB for sure has AK, he'd over call a flush draw, he's not jamming sets or two pair, the button might just have the flush draw, he could have AK too, 2 pair + flush draw JJ maybe.
In the middle of a tossing around the idea in my head of asking the cutoff if she'd like to bet me I can't guess the BB's cards I push out all my $ stupidly announcing 'lets gamble'

Thoughts???

For those of you who interested
Button folds... don't know why.
as soon as he does I begin insisting the dealer 'pair the board' over and over assuming thats my best hope.
The river bricks the BB rolls over the Ah Kh xx with no diamonds.
After the hand the Button asks 'you had QQ right?' I tell him yes and ask if he was flushing he says 'no top 3 pair and Ace'

Last edited by Dickies-89; 11-24-2016 at 10:13 AM.
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-24-2016 , 10:15 AM
fold pre, c/f flop
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-24-2016 , 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xaxa
fold pre, c/f flop
You're no fun
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-24-2016 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickies-89
You're no fun
Piles of money can buy a lot of fun.
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-24-2016 , 09:06 PM
Pre bof , folding is fine, i can understanding calling since it is live and a bunch of fishes are in but folding is optimal

Flop c/f , you have zero potential live outs

check back turn

As played, since you put in a jillion dollars into this pot might as well put in the rest and hope the board pairs.

As soon as you lose that hand, cashout and go to the baccarat table because i have a feeling you have more of a chance winning there.
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-24-2016 , 11:34 PM
Flop is spewy, agree that folding preflop is prob best, betting the turn is ok but the sizing was not.
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-25-2016 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggyzaooo
Pre bof , folding is fine, i can understanding calling since it is live and a bunch of fishes are in but folding is optimal

Flop c/f , you have zero potential live outs

check back turn

As played, since you put in a jillion dollars into this pot might as well put in the rest and hope the board pairs.

As soon as you lose that hand, cashout and go to the baccarat table because i have a feeling you have more of a chance winning there.
Doubtful I've actually never seen a baccarat hand played, I wouldn't have the first clue how to play it I actually couldn't tell you where the baccarat table would be in the cas if you asked, only reason I know cards are involved is cos a guy was once bragging at the poker table how much he was betting per hand and how he liked tearing up the cards when he lost

Last edited by Dickies-89; 11-25-2016 at 02:48 AM.
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-25-2016 , 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
betting the turn is ok but the sizing was not.
could you elaborate more on why you don't like the sizing please?

my thinking behind the smaller 1/2 potish sizing on the turn was i thought thats all a worse hand would call, and the button with 3 pair did call after thinking about folding.
AK is going to raise no matter what i bet so if the button was to have folded on the turn to my bet rather than call and the bb jams maybe i can lean a little more towards folding so i would've saved $ by betting smaller of course if the button had already folded maybe i value my flush draw more and call quicker.

Last edited by Dickies-89; 11-25-2016 at 03:07 AM.
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-25-2016 , 09:29 AM
I would fold pre because you're not closing the action.
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-25-2016 , 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickies-89
could you elaborate more on why you don't like the sizing please?

my thinking behind the smaller 1/2 potish sizing on the turn was i thought thats all a worse hand would call, and the button with 3 pair did call after thinking about folding.
AK is going to raise no matter what i bet so if the button was to have folded on the turn to my bet rather than call and the bb jams maybe i can lean a little more towards folding so i would've saved $ by betting smaller of course if the button had already folded maybe i value my flush draw more and call quicker.
You are giving way too cheap of a price for drawing hands. Imagine you had the nut straight, and not the hand you have. You are giving sets and flush draws free money by letting them call so cheap.
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-26-2016 , 05:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
You are giving way too cheap of a price for drawing hands. Imagine you had the nut straight, and not the hand you have. You are giving sets and flush draws free money by letting them call so cheap.
I think we're actually both wrong, with ak on the turn there I actually default to the same bet size then 4bet jam if raised with nuts that allows me to be bet folding/ pot controling sets and two pairs and also to get calls from the draws rather than fold them out, now you have got me thinking about that I have been operating under the idea of why bet the pot and maybe get 1 caller with worse when I can bet half pot and get 2 calls maybe even get raised by a combo draw.
But all that said I've come to think we're both wrong because it's pretty much impossible for me to have AK with the way I've played the hand, what combos with AK can I have that just call out of position pre, donk the flop, all the hands I'd donk flop almost would be J10's 1010's JJ's 55's QdXd now if I had AK+ any of those hands the only combo I'd have for sure raised to isolate pre, sure I could have an 89 rather than AK but again betting 89's bet the flop and turn and wouldn't have raised pre
now all that says I'm supposed to check the turn with my whole range even if by some miracle I do have AK and or a nut diamond draw.

Last edited by Dickies-89; 11-26-2016 at 05:17 AM.
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-26-2016 , 06:35 AM
You are way overthinking b/f and b/4bet lines when you have only 1.25 pot sized bets

Your b/f range should be small or you will just be bleeding money, once you realize that it should be easier to realize the issues with the betting size

You should also be able to rep ak credibly, or at least a solid player with your line should.. either a wrappish hand or overpair with flush draw.. if you wouldn't flat enough strong hands preflop that can be harder
Live PLO 5/5 hand thoughts? Quote
11-28-2016 , 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
You are way overthinking b/f and b/4bet lines when you have only 1.25 pot sized bets

Your b/f range should be small or you will just be bleeding money, once you realize that it should be easier to realize the issues with the betting size

You should also be able to rep ak credibly, or at least a solid player with your line should.. either a wrappish hand or overpair with flush draw.. if you wouldn't flat enough strong hands preflop that can be harder
yeh that makes sense, thanks for helping me find the leak
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