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Live 5/10/20 - Post Flop Line Help Live 5/10/20 - Post Flop Line Help

08-16-2017 , 08:34 PM
It has been years since I've posted a hand and this hand has caused a lot of debate amongst my poker confidences.

Game is 5/10/20 live playing 4 handed. It's about 6am and we've been playing for about 10 hours.

Button raise to 50 (playing 5k)
Hero SB calls 50 A 5 3 2 (playing 8k)
BB calls 50 (playing 2k)
villain raise to 250 (playing 11k)
Button Calls
Hero Calls
Straddle Calls

Flop 10 5 3

Hero checks,
BB checks,
villain bets 225
Button folds
Hero???

Assuming we continue what's the plan for the rest of the hand? Is this a spot we should look to protect our stack or if the option presents is not getting it in a mistake?

Information to the hand
1. villain mostly has a premium hand when he 3-bets pre. AKQJ, AAxx, KKxx, J1098, he's fairly new to Omaha but has had a lot of success in love nlh.
2. villain likes to bluff in position and is not afraid to fire big on turn and river, but also does that with made hands. Completely polarising his holdings.
3. Most of the time I can dismiss the BB in the hand as he would have reraised pre or just shoved the flop if he had anything good. He's pretty stuck in the game.
4. Post flop villain will generally bet close to pot with strong hands and strong combo draws. Smaller bets generally mean anything else. He does like to chase and float, even one pair hands.
5. I have a history of check raising villain on later streets, and goes back to point 2.
6. Villain only runs it once
Live 5/10/20 - Post Flop Line Help Quote
08-16-2017 , 10:02 PM
IMO, I c/raise the flop to like 800, you should be ahead of both Vs calling range and their raising range, I like the smaller raise to keep in some T$B$B$B hands from the pre-flop 3-bettor, your equity is pretty good on anything except a T so there is no reason not to get value now...If you think Vs are inelastic to our bet size pot it otherwise I like the smaller raise and yah cry gii when v 3-bets our raise and get there

Last edited by kimoser22; 08-16-2017 at 10:18 PM.
Live 5/10/20 - Post Flop Line Help Quote
08-17-2017 , 01:13 AM
These 400bb deep spots are always complex. Obviously we flopped huge and are crushing his range. "Protecting our stack" is nowhere near my mind. He's only made a 22% c-bet and slowplaying risks missing out on huge potential value from hands like KKXXcc, so I'm always raising here. I'd lean toward a large raise like $1200+. If he wants to gii then great. We're 40%ish vs TT and dominating about everything else.

Assuming we raise and he calls the turn should be fairly strait-forward. Lead out on pretty much anything other than a T and call it off if you have to.
Live 5/10/20 - Post Flop Line Help Quote
08-17-2017 , 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate1081

Assuming we raise and he calls the turn should be fairly strait-forward. Lead out on pretty much anything other than a T and call it off if you have to.
This. Also, if we flopped about as well as we can hope and are still scared, what does that say about our hand pre?
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08-17-2017 , 06:52 AM
Raise flop, hero has to narrow the number of opponents to protect 2p on this texture, check lots of turns even when hand improves
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08-17-2017 , 07:11 AM
Thanks for the replies, some things to think about.

If I had been under 250bb deep I would always take the line suggested, just wondering give we are deeper is there a better way to play.

So I actually raised to 825 and he called. When he called I was planning on betting any card that improved my hand or anything from a 6-9. I had his most likely holding on the following
1. AA with a wheel card as I didn't feel he'd continue with bare aces
2. KK with clubs for same reason
3. A KQJ10 with clubs type holding

The turn is a 2d.
If I bet and he has AA4 he is shoving and I'm in a sick spot having to call over 5-5.5k into 10-10.5k
If he has KK with clubs I'm folding that hand
If he has the KQJ10 type hand I'm folding it out
I'm also pretty sure based on my read that he won't bet into me unless I'm best given the dynamics on the night.

With that said do you still bet ?

Last edited by De_chopper; 08-17-2017 at 07:16 AM.
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08-17-2017 , 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by De_chopper
Thanks for the replies, some things to think about.

If I had been under 250bb deep I would always take the line suggested, just wondering give we are deeper is there a better way to play.

So I actually raised to 825 and he called. When he called I was planning on betting any card that improved my hand or anything from a 6-9. I had his most likely holding on the following
1. AA with a wheel card as I didn't feel he'd continue with bare aces
2. KK with clubs for same reason
3. A KQJ10 with clubs type holding

The turn is a 2d.
If I bet and he has AA4 he is shoving and I'm in a sick spot having to call over 5-5.5k into 10-10.5k
If he has KK with clubs I'm folding that hand
If he has the KQJ10 type hand I'm folding it out
I'm also pretty sure based on my read that he won't bet into me unless I'm best given the dynamics on the night.

With that said do you still bet ?
betting is going to be +EV, but I like Monikrazy's line of a check here, obviously your doing well against his range on this turn and probably only 70/30 dog against his jamming range (straights plus), plus you get enough fold equity on the turn to justify the bet. I just think the benefits of keeping his range wide and allowing him to bluff at the turn/ catch second best flushes or bare trip 5s makes check a good choice. If it checks through you will have good enough equity on many rivers to call so you dont have to worry about overfolding.
Live 5/10/20 - Post Flop Line Help Quote
08-17-2017 , 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by De_chopper
Thanks for the replies, some things to think about.

If I had been under 250bb deep I would always take the line suggested, just wondering give we are deeper is there a better way to play.

So I actually raised to 825 and he called. When he called I was planning on betting any card that improved my hand or anything from a 6-9. I had his most likely holding on the following
1. AA with a wheel card as I didn't feel he'd continue with bare aces
2. KK with clubs for same reason
3. A KQJ10 with clubs type holding

The turn is a 2d.
If I bet and he has AA4 he is shoving and I'm in a sick spot having to call over 5-5.5k into 10-10.5k
If he has KK with clubs I'm folding that hand
If he has the KQJ10 type hand I'm folding it out
I'm also pretty sure based on my read that he won't bet into me unless I'm best given the dynamics on the night.

With that said do you still bet ?


Correct me if I'm wrong but if he has aa4 then you still have 15 clean outs? And another 2 for chop? But he seems like the type to also fire turn when you check with KK and clubs
I still like a check call here, assuming he bets river or calls river bet when the board gets nutted


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08-17-2017 , 11:26 AM
Thanks all - it's been really good getting your views on the line.

Flop play general consensus is check raise
Turn first few liked a bet, the rest generally like a check.

I did check and he checked behind, I was 100% certain I was ahead at that point.

River came Kd for completeness, this street I was fine with.

One last question that comes to mind, would anyone fold my hand preflop given I'm in the SB?
Live 5/10/20 - Post Flop Line Help Quote
08-17-2017 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by De_chopper
The turn is a 2d.
If I bet and he has AA4 he is shoving and I'm in a sick spot having to call over 5-5.5k into 10-10.5k
I don't like the mindset of worrying about him have both AA, which we block, AND a side card 4 on top of that. Yeah its possible, but its not a major consideration. Even in this worst case scenario we still have like 35-40%.

We still definitely want to bet the turn. He can still have a lot of 1pr hands that we're happy to get him to fold with our low 2pr, and we can still get value from hands we dominate. Sizing is debatable, but I'd go somewhere 1/2 to 2/3 pot. If he jams now then it sucks, but sigh call it off.
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08-17-2017 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by De_chopper
One last question that comes to mind, would anyone fold my hand preflop given I'm in the SB?
Not deep-stacked in a short-handed live game at 6am.
Live 5/10/20 - Post Flop Line Help Quote
08-17-2017 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by De_chopper
Thanks all - it's been really good getting your views on the line.

Flop play general consensus is check raise
Turn first few liked a bet, the rest generally like a check.

I did check and he checked behind, I was 100% certain I was ahead at that point.

River came Kd for completeness, this street I was fine with.

One last question that comes to mind, would anyone fold my hand preflop given I'm in the SB?
Yes, I don't think anything is wrong with folding, especially so deep. Lots of reverse implied odds with small straights and boats. I'm not saying calling (or even 3!) is bad, the hand has some good traits but playing extremely defensive oop deep is feasible. Plo is a game with great stylistic flexibility.
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08-18-2017 , 02:09 AM
Bet flop imo
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