Live 2/5 PLO

Hero is a NLHE player learning PLO. I'm not sure what to do in this spot.

Hero just sat down for 2 hands so basically have no reads.

Hero has 1k. It is multiway pot with players have stacks from 400-1200, only one guy covers me

Hero has AAQTds dcdc

Hero in HJ, everyone limps in front of me.

I pot it to 37 then everyone calls, lol.

Pot 333

Flop 2h5d9h

Everyone checks to me, what should I do?

Check/evaluate? Bet call? Bet fold?


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Weird spot. I'd bet like 175 and see what happens. Could be convinced into chking

Check. You're not getting a bet to go through 8 people anywhere near often enough, and especially not when a bunch of the checkers are at check-shove depth. And the turn sucks to play too when you get calls.

Check, its very unlikely we have the best hand on the flop, even though the pot is large our equity is likely to be poor vs GII ranges

+1 to Tom.

What would it be like to run into like A346 here with heart draw? Something like that is likely out there and the whole table is way too tough to get through.
The other thing is that if they know you as a NLHE player, that raise marks you. You are probably playing Indian with your two Aces on your forehead here.

This would be a better spot, at least starting out, to limp as well, and see a flop that you have a draw to the nuts with. That is what we are looking for.
This hand in this spot is check and fold to any real action. Not even worth getting involved for a little bet to hit something that might only cost you more money.

I always like the 3467. That is my ace cracker.

At 100 bb, I'd bet/gii here and be fine with it. At 200 bb, it's a little dicier and I'd probably take a pot control line. There's a lot of ways people can jam w/ big equity against your hand on this board.

You probably just found the best game of your life. If this game routinely plays this limpy/calls raises, these people are going to pay your mortgage and car loan.

I've seen 1/2 and 1/3 games like this but usually not 2/5 unless it is the smallest game avaiable. This game is so out of the norm that you are going to have to pick your own style of play that doesn't disrupt this massive amount of limping and calling raises. And the players will never know what hit them other than that you are "lucky". Some people on 2+2 will suggest small ball, some will suggest aggressively pushing equity edges, some are going to be SPR fanatics, all I'm going to say is I would like a seat.

Betting into 8 players is a no from me.

This is extremely standard for most live games, home games/ casino etc.

Limpy limperson from limpsville and his 7 buddies. The beauty of full ring live PLO.

even in not-so-great live games there's often a ton of multiway pots sometimes facing 3-bets cold etc, live poker is slow and everyone is dealt 4 cards

Oh yeah the limping is common. But I want phone video of a 2/5 hand going...

$2, $5, $5, $5, $5, $5, $37...

Then calls galore...

$37, $37, $37, $37, $37, $37, $37, $37, ($37)

Usually E2 or E3 is bailing on the 3-bet and mad that they limped their junk in the first place. Also in Vegas in both NLH and PLO there is a huge difference in how the 1/2 games play than how 2/5 plays. I really want phone video so I can read casino name on table. If this is NV or MD I'll be there and I promise to limp-call wide too.

+1. The 4 cards makes everyone both optimistic (want to see every flop) and pessimistic (don't want to raise). So you see tons of loose action.

no it's 9 way you do not have the best hand with one pair

check if it is actually 9 handed to the flop

Check flop. Reasons are:

1) If you bet, you will have to bet fold since your hand does not have enough equity against any of villain's get it in range.
2) Your hand wants the flop to check through and for a diamond or Jack to peel off (or an 8, K or Ace). On all of these cards, you will have the nut draw, and so you benefit from having the flop check through so as to allow inferior backdoor draws to stay in the hand. A lot of the value from your hand comes from its nutty backdoor draws, not from its current flop value (which is quite limited 9-ways).
3.) You have no fold equity on the flop.
4.) You have poor visibility on the turn after betting and being called. I have already listed the potential good turn cards for you above. On all other turns, you will have no idea where you stand in the hand and will be prone to make mistakes.

Thanks. This is very constructive.


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Awesome post.

OP, there's times to go for thin value plays, but OOP on the flop massively multiway is definitely not it. If you check, you might be able to see a turn for free, or cheap (as live players bet size poorly and someone could do something silly and bet like 50 into 333).

Also of note is that against 5 totally random hands (PPT can only handle 6 handed), your hand actually has only around 12.6% equity. Obviously this just gets worse when you add 3 more random hands.

I'd probably bet this flop w/ like 99 and a multiway combo nut draw (like Ah8d7d6h) and hope no one notices in a live environment.

Tell the house to round to the nearest $5 Jeez.

You only have $37 invested. Check, fold the turn unless you pick up more nut outs or make top set.

I like this way of thinking to help Holdem players :

You should think of Aces as AK in Holdem, AK has no value unless it flops at least top pair top kicker? In PLO Aces often have no value unless they flop top set. They are basically like dueces sometimes, and should be ditched easily when they don't flop sets. Or you will lose way too much money learning this game.

Because of the frequency of sets in Omaha overpairs stand no chance against large fields without additional outs. You are always looking for a set and a redraw. Sometimes you flop a set with a 3 card straight present, now you only have a full house draw. Of course this changes when you are short handed or heads up, but in large full ring games with lots of callers the value of aces shrinks considerably.

I would often rather have 78910 DS, or 8910J DS in PLO than Aces double suited because you can win large pots by having dominating draws. I also would often rather 3 bet pre flop with those hands than aces, because when you 3 bet with aces you pretty much tell your opposition what you have.

It is specious reasoning to look at how much money we personally have invested. What you should do is look at the size of the pot, number of players, the action in front of us, etc.

Where is this game?

hero, i play in games like this all the time. rip the flop and ride the variance. sometimes you get it in against your worst nightmare but a lot of the time you get it in against 2-3 villains who all block each other's outs.

Check and it's not close.