While that is true, the evidence shown in this thread leaves little room to believe they're honest players. So if they don't want to be looked upon as cheaters and go with the consequences, this is likely their only chance.

y.s.o. did u used to hide cards(where it was still possible) when beeing AI before the river?

Yes I always did, I don't know for how long but at least for 2 years if I would guess.

I would have requested those handhistories over the past 4 years if Pastafiore would have asked me to at the beginning. Would be pretty hard anyway to send them if he doesn't respond to my PM or skype invitation. I am pretty sure he is to paranoid to open a file i send him.

I just requested all the handhistories of 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016. I can forward the email I will recieve from stars. If Pastafiore isn't willing to give me his email address I would need the email address of someone else here.

i would really like to recieve that link! but i dont think stars is going to do that, and i won't download it anywhere else except link from stars server. you can send me that download link by pm when u have it.

stars does that actually within 24 hours.

okay, i'm waiting for it.

Could this could explain the abnormalities of the EV on observed handhistories??!!
The botring I analyzed hided their cards when all in.
When on SB hand is always going to be shown win or lose - when on BTN only wins.
This would also explain why the recent Stars change to always show cards when All-in normalized the EV of some players.

I really hope this is the explanation of my suspicious graph.
Maybe we should ask stars about this.

LOL if this is all just because of hiding whole cards when all in

Stars won't comment on this.

IMO this explains everything...also why this trend changed recently.

In fact this is the reason

okay, ive got links now, it will take time to import, take a look on. if i do remember right, i did use that hiding feature too, and did not run like that in that db. anyway there's now a chance that could be the reason for those graphs, wich i could have not knew, like no1 else did too. that kind of possible missunderstandings are the reason, why i wanted to be sure about, before bringing nicks on public, and i assume that even ppl behind those 5 nicks on this graphs does still understand my methods. i can say now that it's yet possible that all those nicks are legit, and i'll personally send apoligies for all, and atleast do give coaching for free, all 4 others do have huge leaks atleast, and if yso is hem noob, i can coach with it. that's still too early to say anything more about. i will inform you here, after we all have done that investigation. however we'll still keep going this whole thing trough, because there's still obvious botters/colluders, or whatever they are, who will be caught by using different methods, than those filters, as i have told earlier.

This applies to only observed hand histories.

You get the showdown data when you playing on the table hence no (EV)bias on showdowns.

Barely play online much at all now and this thread pretty much sums up why. If people have to spend hours and hours researching, scanning their databases and discussing with other players to try and make the game fairer, there's something seriously wrong. Whether this is a simple mistake about the hole cards or not.

If a recreational gambler were to stumble upon this thread do you think they'd want to play poker online, or just punt their money on some sports bet?

Maybe you're not aware of UB- superuser scandal or the numerous past botrings. Who brought these into light? Vigilant players.

World isn't perfect. You are free to choose your past time.

still can't be too careful, download links are like that: http://reports.rationalwebservices.c...**********.zip can some1 confirm that's pokerstar's link for sure?

Yes, that is a link from PokerStars

Lol what an enormous turd nugget that Pasta dude is!

Let me get one thing straight, I'm a recently retired MTT lol_badreg but I know Igobustsosoon personally. I can absolutely vouch for the fact that he basically only knows how to turn HEM2 and how to shut it off. I'm pretty handy with the program and I have helped him find stats when the PLO botring was exposed to find out how badly he got screwed over by them. So you accusing him of manipulating his DB and doing wrong filters on his DB is lol! Beyond lol even! Manipulating a database is also very easy to spot if you just sort hands on date/time played. Because you'll have a bunch of hands where he was BTN on one hand and then SB the next, to be UTG the hand after that and so on. So you suggesting this is a reasonable way to hide a cover up is straight up idiotic! I would spot that trick without any effort whatsoever and so would anybody with even a basic understanding of HEM2.

I can understand your suspicion and think it's great that you put in the work to investigate, but your attitude towards him is way out of line. Especially considering the fact he is actively trying to work with you to disprove the allegations! After you analyze his database I suggest you write him a hefty apology post!

imorting hude db's is slow, and hem is also slow with big db's, clock is here 21.00, and i think i'm ready on ~tomorrow afternoon with this. when i am, and i'll instantly report here about. i'll be as quick with this as i can.

i did not have his whole db here, i did have his graphs he posted, and manipulating db is what i'd have done if i was trying to get out of trouble, if i was cheating. if you was me, you would have not also downloaded anything from possible cheater/gone trough this in private. i don't know him irl, or how good is he with hem, he said now he's not good with it. i'd still do things same way i did sofar, and i do treat him same way as others here. i never base anything on feelings in this kind of things, that's why my attitude could look a big gross for example on those ppl eyes, who base their opinions more on emotions, than logic and conceretic things. that took several days from whole community who's reading that, to find that kind of thing, wich could explain this. i also told that, if players are unguilty, i'll send apologies, and refund that by coaching for free for example, and belive me, i'm one of the best ones in taking advatage by using HEM for example. -last thing i want to do here is harm a legit player.

well, i don't know exactly if this is the case here, but i do remember back in the HU days i bought hands and some of the biggest winner ran like abnormal amount over EV and i was first like wtf! then i realized after looking through the HH´s that in case you´re AI and villain shows on the river first and you muck villain just get like 100% EV, in case both show its just the normal EV, which explains this huge difference in EV and winning!

Here is a graph from an HU-Guy who just played occasionally 6max(He was a big bumhunter and a pretty big winner), and im even when i don't know him like 99,5% sure he´s a legit player, also member of this forum for many years!

overall:


and with pastas filter:


So maybe this is the reason maybe its not, i just wanna give this info out before some kind of witchhunt started. additionally i wanna add that i neither know y.s.o. nor anyone linked to him either online nor irl. i just think its fair to share this info with you guys, esp. pasta, just check the HH u´ve if you always have heros(y.s.o.´s cards shown and what the ev say when AI on the flop for example).
Also sry for joining that party so late i did read some of it earlier but was so busy that i didn't had time to read all or response otherwise i would´ve said that before!

ofc not cause u always see the mucked hand when you´re involved in the hand, the problem with bought hands is that those are observed and not requested by the players on the table therefor you just see what u would see when you observe the table by your own!

I am not emotionally invested in this, so accusing me of bringing emotions into this discussion is nothing short of idiotic.

I will state again that I admire your drive to investigate stuff like this, and fully understand why you mentioned the things you found on this forum. But ignoring his attempts to talk to you and the general tone of language in your posts directed at him are extremely disrespectful to say the least! Accepting a skype contact request will not get you hacked, answering a PM will not get you hacked. You suggesting that fear of a hack or whatever is reasonable is ridiculous unless you are completely clueless on how skype or PMs work!

Offering coaching as a compensation for your behaviour is again beyond lol, stop it ... seriously. I am pretty sure you are dead last in the ranking of people he wants coaching from. Do your due diligence and then just offer your sincere apologies.

I'd also just take a general lesson in life from this whole discussion to not be so aggressive to people who are actively trying to work with you. I could fill a football stadium with legit players who would never send you the amount of hands Igobustsosoon is providing you with, so tone it down a bit! You literally have zero justification to disrespect him in the way you have been doing itt!