"I wake up at varying hours of the day, I do nothing, and hope that I'm able to fall asleep as soon as I can."

This is a sign of a very severe depression. If its possible I advise you to see a psychologist as soon as possible. Tons of poker players are seeing psychologists/therapists all the time...there is nothing strange about that.
(Lots of huge winners(/luckboxes) etc...also.)


What you write then is ofc a confirmation of the above

"Thoughts of taking my life constantly flood my mind"

This mental state is not going to last for ever. You are 20 - something -, bright obv (even tho that doesnt matter at all really), you have a family etc...
and the ability to turn this around.


Most of this is just in your head.

I agree with Lee:

"I will wish you a clear head"



edit: I dont agree with the poster above. Medication + therapy is SUPER standard in these cases.

“the primary cause of unhappiness is never the situation but your thoughts about it.”

Realize that life != poker.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. You are so young, you're smart, you can do great things in life. Right now, you have many options: You can get all kinds of part-time jobs, you absolutely SHOULD enroll in college imo (apply for financial aid). Don't postpone these! Go and apply!

Regarding your physical and mental health, slowly start running/exercising (as much as you can for now). Mental health will improve drastically as you do all of the above imo.

I can't quit poker cold turkey. This is all I've done for the last three years and is all that I really feel that I'm good at, or have the potential to be good at. Even tho I'm down now, I've gotten so much from poker. Despite this, I feel like I'm owed something from this (tho I know really, I'm owed squat). Some sort of freedom to do what I enjoy and not be in the spot I'm in, but we all know life isn't fair. Someone outside of the poker world would quickly label this as an addiction. I would agree.

I've been diagnosed with depression and have been on and off meds since I was 15. I've been taking what I'm on now for almost a year and feel weird when I'm without them, but they aren't filled with chemical happiness, atleast for me.

I've also spent a lot of time with psychiatrists with varying results. I certainly would never have had it in me to globe-trot without the help of the one I had last seen.

Going to school makes sense, but I don't know if I have it in me. I would have to go to a community college because I dropped out of high school and got my GED. I don't think that this would equate to the college experience that I've heard from many is pretty awesome.

Wrt medication, it should preferably be avoided, but I guess it can help in some cases (although, as I understand it, there is no clear evidence for it helping except in very few cases, but maybe just the placebo effect will help).

Anyway, I really feel like every post that doesn't have the word "college" in it should be disregarded (maybe I can stretch it to posts with "college" and/or "job") - it is just such a good experience for almost anyone: you make friends, you act like a normal kid, you evolve as a person, you drink and party, you actually do something productive and you learn something. You get none of this from sitting in your mom's basement and making(/losing) $1M playing online poker.

If db is as smart as I think he is, finding an intellectual pursuit/interest outside of poker should be a huge priority as well imo, which obviously is an argument for going to college. Poker just isn't that interesting in the grand scheme of things (life), so go to college and try to find other stuff that interests you (girls, parties, intellectual subjects etc).

So take a break from poker, maybe travel a bit as was recommended above. Then start in college when you can and down the road you can maybe take up poker again - as was also mentioned above, even grinding small midstakes will make you feel like a millionaire compared to your college friends.

This is very, very wrong. Plz dont post if you dont have a clue about these things.

Again...medication + therapy is SUPER standard in these cases.


Keep doing this. Stay with your psychiatrist (or find a better one) and definitely dont forget about therapy. Its the combination that works.

Its very standard to try different meds. It takes time to find the right one...yes.


Community college is a good idea (or finishing your high school degree and get to another college? Im not an american...but should be possible, right?)

Your defintely bright enough to do it.

I wouldn't post unless I at least had a clue about such things... I did do a neuroscience degree and read a lot of the literature surrounding SSRIs, know of several people who have taken them and got prescribed them myself but opted not to take them. Obviously if you have already been perscribed meds then its a completely different story as its not as simple as just stopping taking them.

Your last psychologist sounds like a positive influence on you - as you seemed to be almost coming out of your shell when I met you in Melbourne last year.

You don't have to quit poker cold turkey when you get a job - you can do it part-time. I would not downplay the importance of doing something that gets you in to a schedule of hanging around with 'normal people'. Its not forever - its just to get some perspective back. Its really easy to lose perspective of the real world when your life is poker.

Also, you mentioned you 'crash and burned' your last stake at higher stakes... what happened there?

Just wrote something longer, but I will let this be - it is a different discussion and I don't want to derail db's thread. At the very least, I think that medication is used too much by doctors/psychiatrists.


Returning to the subject, I think that community college sounds fine, although someone from America surely knows more about this than me. And as Quasar mentions, maybe you can go back and finish HS first. You're so young - the world is literally at your feet and it is soooo much bigger than just poker!

Start talking to your family about your problems. Don't be afraid to communicate with your loved ones, they'll always be happy to be there for you. Get what is in your head out and put it in simple words. It may sound like jibberish in the beginning but it'll start to make sense at some point. It'll help you realize it's not that bad and you're just making it look worse in your head.

There are infinite possibilities in life. You're a nice guy and have above average intelligence, just seek an opportunity, grab it and work hard. Don't ever think about giving up.

Sounds like you have a gambling problem. You should probably work out some sort of bankroll partitioning strategy that involves keeping any money in excess of your stoploss in your backer's account, with a mandatory 3 day timeout. You should try to find a part-time job to help out and remember the value of money - you don't feel the urge to shoot off 20k quite as quickly when you realize that it will take you 1 full year of full time work to make that much.

Also, after reading your OP, it's clear your backer is just lighting money on fire.

Edit: I'd also try to get some sunlight. Will make you feel a lot better.

Have been staked since Marchish? (was on ft so had to be) by my friends.. Started from 3/6-10/20 wih 55k spread over bunch of sites. Went broke in like a month, would ask for reloads few times but nothing became of it. Didn't really talk to backers at all over summer. Augustish they give me 5k across 2 sites to play 2/2, I run it up to 20k in about a week then lose it playing 5/5 - 10/20. Communication was unclear on both sides and they thought they told me to stick to 5/5, but this wasn't said and was initially given like 10bi per site anyway but felt like a jackass anyway. Just made contact with them again couple days ago and sounds like they've set up accounts for me with rb that I'll be grinding 2/2 on.

I think this is something you should look to ditch if you can mate. It seemed like a few years ago, and still now, a lot of GP's were just handing out anti-depressants like sweets and from what ive read a lot of cases were completely un-warranted, or just overkill.

Im not saying you dont have some sort of mood-disorder/chemical imbalance that could be helped with meds, but at 15 your brain is still developing.

A lot of mental-health issues with teenagers and drugs (weed psychosis.. etc) seem to be caused by kids continually hammering their brain while its still developing. While its not the same thing, im just saying being on mood-altering meds for your teenage years is going to get to anyone eventually and make them feel weird.

I think the more natural you can do things the better it will be. If its not medically dangerous, like if you stop taking stuff youre gonna flip out and run outside with your boxers on your head and start shouting at the traffic, then make it a project to ween yourself off whatever youre taking. Youre not doing anything else atm so give something a shot that might make you feel better, and subsequently make you able to process and deal with your other **** more effectively (like having no cash. Im sure everyone knows, unless their very lucky that being skint ****ing sucks).

Personally id def take everyones advice about exercise and diet. Maybe start hammering it on the days you stop taking the anti-depressants, and force yourself to eat properly.

You probably see things in a certain way as a poker player so treat it like game, your aim is to not let your self dwell on anything that makes you feel **** and you gain EV by making the right moves like exercise, or sunshine or having a laugh with someone in a shop when you buy something.

I will say, if you have solid medical advice that you need to be on meds then follow that. But otherwise, you posted the thread because youre obv looking for ideas on how to feel better and I think taking charge of yourself again and not feeling like youre just helplessly floating along (by kicking the meds, getting stronger and healthier) will be by far and away the best thing for you. Everything else will start to fall into place if you start making positive choices, even if now the idea of that happening is completely laughable to you.

Sorry for rambling dude, definitely rooting for you, gl.

Please guys, only one even close to being qualified to talking about DB's situation is gavz with a neuroscience degree.

DB already has had (and hopefully still has) professional help. We are simply not qualified to offer more informed advice.

DB: I wish you the best of luck but the best we can really tell you is to seek professional help again and honestly cut down on poker even if you cannot quit cold turkey. That is something for you and your psychologist to work out.

have you thought of moving out of LV? It can be a very lonely city.

People go through similar stuff all the time, so theres plenty of good advice available here regardless of whether you are qualified.

I dont think Doorbread is dumb enough to take it as gospel, and should obv run anything drastic by a professional if possible. But I think its clear to see the over-whelming majority of people would agree that exercise, getting outside and social-interaction are good things to do. Its also pretty clear plenty of poker players have at one time been through similar things, so seeing the stuff that worked for them is a good idea.

Doorbread i remember playing you at 2-4 we actually played a fair amount, we chatted about moving up to 3-6 and you said you didn't want to move up until you won 100k at 2-4 which i thought was very disciplined of you at the time. You obviously played under rolled for the big games and maybe moved up to fast also but the positive here is you went busto at 21 and not say 27 etc or over, and although this might sound wrong now but this might be a good thing in a way down the track in other ways if you learn from it.

Grind slowly and in a year or 2 you might be rolled again to play higher stakes and with experience on your side regarding BRM and value for money.

GL

btw whats 2/2 mean ?

I agree with you.

But the "real big problem" starts when you arent able to
"exercise, getting outside and social-interact"

I dont think "DB is there yet", he should be able to turn this around with the advice he got in this thread hopefully.

Having thoughts of taking your own life are frightening. This sounds like a very scary situation, and hopefully you can eradicate those thoughts from your head. Poker is a game, and its a game that you have proven you can be good at. But it doesnt owe you anything, and you dont owe it anything. It is what it is. If you are broke, then you are the 99% for people your age. Talk to your family and your phsyciatrist and pull yourself out of this funk.

fwiw, a family member of mine has used SSRIs (sertraline) and found them to be pretty useful. Obviously they are not a 'magic bullet' and like Quasar said, have to be used in conjunction with other therapies and changes in lifestyle to reap the most benefit from them.

I think the clinical decision of whether to use A.Ds should be decided by a well educated GP anyway, not people on a poker forum.

You don't have to quit poker cold turkey when you get a job - you can do it part-time. I would not downplay the importance of doing something that gets you in to a schedule of hanging around with 'normal people'. Its not forever - its just to get some perspective back. Its really easy to lose perspective of the real world when your life is poker. - Gavz

+1 to this

OK. It just seems to me in the second case that if you had been managing your roll properly and moving down when you had to and being a bit nitty with roll management then you would not have gone broke. This is an example of things that will probably continue to happen if you don't have a stable mindset while trying to make a living from poker.

I remember when you went on that tear at 25/50 and when you hit a big downswing you started sitting at Gus HU 500/1k - obviously not a great bankroll decision. I feel like the lifestyle of playing online poker all the time without breaks breeds an unstable mindset - especially if you aren't surrounded by a large support network of friends and/or family.

I would really urge you to talk to your Mum about this (suicidal thoughts/severe depression) and psychologist if you haven't already. Its not that I think you can't become a successful poker player - I just think you need to get yourself in a better state of mind first.

Upset after reading the OP but happy to see all the support.

DB, from the limited interaction we've had, I always considered you a nice, approachable guy with the head in the right place. Coming in here and writing this post, acknowledging the problem, is a big hurdle that you just took. Now you need to stay on that track and address the problem, first of all by getting help from people who are qualified to provide it.

In addition, I wanna echo what previous posters have said about college. It's a great place to meet people and make tons of friends that will last a long time.

I'm sure you'll bounce back.

Im going to write something useful later i hope...but like CZI write your OP is a really good post...and one of the better posts this year imo.

I think there is already very good advice being given wrt your life issues, but I just wanted to comment on the poker aspect that no one has mentioned, specifically regarding your stake. It is absurd, IMO, that you should be expected to recover 55k worth of MU at 2/2-5/5 if it was accrued playing 3/6-10/20. If these were the stakes that you were supposed to be playing (you didn't just shot take on your own), and the backers no longer think you are +EV at these stakes, then there should be a reduction in your makeup somwhat relative to the change in stakes. If putting any amount of money in your pocket is just a distant dream, there is no way you could possibly play at your best (as you mentioned it is a rather daunting task), and I'd think you are really just further wasting your life investing any more time in poker.

I understand that backers have no obligation to keep staking you at the highest stakes you were allowed to play, but it is insane to think you should recover the full amount at stakes 20-25% the size. If you weren't +EV in those games to begin with, your backer needs to take some responsibility for that error in judgement. I think I saw that this might have been an arrangement with friends, so maybe it is a non issue, but in general this is not the way a staking arrangement should be handled if the backer wants you to step down dramatically after building a large makeup figure.

Anyways, I think you should probably step away from poker, exercise, get as much sunlight as possible, get a job, and go to school.

I don't think you should be playing poker at all if you are unable to manage your bankroll while remaining happy/healthy.

Poker is very stressful- both because it's isolating socially, because of the money involved, and because we are evolved to let random outcomes *** with our emotions. Being a successful poker pro means you have to be kind of an emotional freak of nature and not let this genuinely stressful stuff effect you very much. I've played with you, and I thought and still think you have the technical skills to beat high stakes poker- but you might just not have the personality type, at least not right now.

Taking a break from poker seems like a good idea. I'm also echoing everyone else in the thread who says that having a support network of friends and family and a significant other is key. You will also feel better if you force yourself to eat healthy and get daily exercise.

Ben

FWIW, when you say you're "indebted" 60K to your backers you just mean that you're in makeup, right? Unless there were really specific terms of your deal where you said you wouldn't quit them in makeup under any circumstances even if they dropped you way down, I would say you have no obligation to sit and grind 2/2 for them with a 60K hole, and should be free to look for a new deal. When you're backing someone, you can't turn a 30 BI hole into a 300 BI hole by dropping stakes and expect people to keep playing for you. At the very least, if they want you to play that small, they should give some kind of relief on the makeup until you're playing higher stakes so that you can get some cash in the mean time. If they're not willing to work with you, I'm sure you could find another backer, as you've got a really good track record over a long period of time.

And while I know ultimately, money's not going to make a difference on it's own and all that stuff like exercise, meeting people, etc., is going to be more important, it's just REALLY difficult to go out and do all that when you've undergone such a huge change in your financial circumstances recently, especially if you feel guilty over your debts to friends and familiy. I think in this exact case, it would be a lot easier to just get set up with a better deal where you can actually make some money, and then once the stress is relieved a little bit, put an effort into going out and doing the other things that will make you feel like more of a whole person.

Edit: Looks like Halowax posted pretty much the exact same thing I said at the exact same time.