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deep, raised on river after lead deep, raised on river after lead

06-16-2016 , 07:47 PM
Villain and I have been battling three tables 2/4 hu, and i'm up roughly a buyin on him before this hand.

villain button with $705
hero sb with $1376

villain opens $12 i call with kdkqd7

flop q104 rainbow

hero checks, villain bets $16, hero calls

turn 7 bringing second diamond on board

hero checks, villain bets $45, hero calls

river 7

hero leads $138, villain raises to $560

hero?

So the game has been somewhat aggressive with me doing most of the aggression. He's seen me semi bluff and miss twice on a different table. He's been barreling quite frequently flops and turns, and shutting down on the river which is why i lead. I lead one other time on river; he called and I had the nuts or something close to take it down.

Was this a terrible lead? If i lead is this a bet fold, or do i always need to call here. Is check call better, or do I lose value frequently enough from q10, 4's full, KK AA with suits that missed?
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-16-2016 , 08:23 PM
I hate your play in 3 different spots

I'd say KK with some connectivity and a suit is good enough for a 3b, but given the dynamics of your HU match, its not terrible to call and disguise the strength of your hand. Just know that you're slow playing right now

Good c/c on flop, his 2/3 pot doesn't show a lot of weakness... 1/2 pot is enough to c/r on this board with your hand

Horrible c/c on turn. This has to be a c/r, cause you pick up sooo much equity. If v checks back, you pot the river, and call a raise

Idk about the river. You've played this hand extremely passively, and you have to keep in mind that you've been slow-playing all streets. So I think you ****ed yourself into a bet/call cause i don't think he puts your range on your actual hand strength. You could be leading with missed diamonds, A7, 74, 7T, KK, AA... Hardly ever 44, QQ, TT...

Best river move is just c/c.. You miss a little value, potentially, but you give yourself too much room to be bluffed off of your strong holding. And those hands that I mentioned which you could be leading with, he could be doing the same to push you off your passive-weak appearing hand with his 3rd barrel. So don't think you're losing tremendous value here by not betting it yourself


Spoiler:
plz post spoiler

Last edited by blitzT4M4Y0theGOAT; 06-16-2016 at 08:30 PM.
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-16-2016 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzT4M4Y0theGOAT
I hate your play in 3 different spots

I'd say KK with some connectivity and a suit is good enough for a 3b, but given the dynamics of your HU match, its not terrible to call and disguise the strength of your hand. Just know that you're slow playing right now

Good c/c on flop, his 2/3 pot doesn't show a lot of weakness... 1/2 pot is enough to c/r on this board with your hand

Horrible c/c on turn. This has to be a c/r, cause you pick up sooo much equity. If v checks back, you pot the river, and call a raise

Idk about the river. You've played this hand extremely passively, and you have to keep in mind that you've been slow-playing all streets. So I think you ****ed yourself into a bet/call cause i don't think he puts your range on your actual hand strength. You could be leading with missed diamonds, A7, 74, 7T, KK, AA... Hardly ever 44, QQ, TT...

Best river move is just c/c.. You miss a little value, potentially, but you give yourself too much room to be bluffed off of your strong holding. And those hands that I mentioned which you could be leading with, he could be doing the same to push you off your passive-weak appearing hand with his 3rd barrel. So don't think you're losing tremendous value here by not betting it yourself


Spoiler:
plz post spoiler
Yeah i definitely ****ed up on the turn; that was the main part of my play i hate. I thought preflop was ok especially this deep, but i could be wrong; either way i think it's close.

I guess i did play it really passively which i didn't even realize until looking at it now; ugh. I've started to notice I tend to do this when I get deep.

Any tips on improving deep play? I just feel like I play like such a pussy and passively once getting over 2-300 BB's.

I folded, but i'll post what he had tomorrow. Bovada reveals both hole cards 24h after the hands.

Thanks for the tips.
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-16-2016 , 09:53 PM
seems like a snap call and well played to me
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-16-2016 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggirl0521
Yeah i definitely ****ed up on the turn; that was the main part of my play i hate. I thought preflop was ok especially this deep, but i could be wrong; either way i think it's close.

I guess i did play it really passively which i didn't even realize until looking at it now; ugh. I've started to notice I tend to do this when I get deep.

Any tips on improving deep play? I just feel like I play like such a pussy and passively once getting over 2-300 BB's.

I folded, but i'll post what he had tomorrow. Bovada reveals both hole cards 24h after the hands.

Thanks for the tips.
Yeah unfortunately it feels like a good fold after those compounding errors. Plz post what he had as I'm curious to his hand, employing this pot-sized river raise

Its really no big deal to reset tables... You have to be real comfortable at the stake to be playing HU 3-4 tables and being 300bb deep.. So when you start feeling passive, you can reset. Or you can setup a cap of 275bb-325bb, sit out, let the v know were resetting. If he doesn't want, he can quit the rest of the tables too

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMA
seems like a snap call and well played to me
Yay more trolls. I've just started ignoring most of your posts/threads.
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-16-2016 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzT4M4Y0theGOAT

Horrible c/c on turn. This has to be a c/r, cause you pick up sooo much equity. If v checks back, you pot the river, and call a raise
huh? c/r turn is horrible
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-16-2016 , 11:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06Fanatic1
huh? c/r turn is horrible
Agreed.
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzT4M4Y0theGOAT
Yeah unfortunately it feels like a good fold after those compounding errors. Plz post what he had as I'm curious to his hand, employing this pot-sized river raise
What would you pot back river with?

FWIW, if villain is any good at all, you need to call.
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06Fanatic1
huh? c/r turn is horrible
Why is c/r horrible? You recommend leading out on this turn?

My idea is that in the HU match, you want to maintain the perception of your hand by checking, then c/r pot and forcing v into a bad call/hard spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingnite
What would you pot back river with?

FWIW, if villain is any good at all, you need to call.
I suppose this is true. I guess I'm a bad reg cause I don't love the river pot-bluff strategy/move
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 01:21 PM
ok, so he had 10's full.

some harsh criticism for which streets i shouldve played differently please?
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 01:21 PM
I think bet/folding smaller on the river is best...he shouldn't have many bluffs since we have two kings and there's some value to be had against qt/q4/t4.....dont think check call is good
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06Fanatic1
I think bet/folding smaller on the river is best...he shouldn't have many bluffs since we have two kings and there's some value to be had against qt/q4/t4.....dont think check call is good
thanks.

turn play?
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingnite
What would you pot back river with?

FWIW, if villain is any good at all, you need to call.
am i just way to easy to exploit by folding in these spots if villain is good? is that the reasoning?
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 01:49 PM
if you folded the river here then you made a great play all around in the hand, we should be asking you for advice
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 02:24 PM
as long as there is 2p2, as long there will be good games...
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by javale mc g
as long as there is 2p2, as long there will be good games...
so bad fold ?
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 03:59 PM
bad advice you get....
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-17-2016 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by javale mc g
bad advice you get....
What would u recommend? not being condescending; just would like to know.
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-18-2016 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06Fanatic1
I think bet/folding smaller on the river is best...he shouldn't have many bluffs since we have two kings and there's some value to be had against qt/q4/t4.....dont think check call is good
He can turn quite a few of his QT hands into a bluff on the river versus a range of sizings.
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-18-2016 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingnite
He can turn quite a few of his QT hands into a bluff on the river versus a range of sizings.
no
deep, raised on river after lead Quote
06-19-2016 , 05:33 AM
My opinions:

Preflop - Well played. This hand is not good enough to 3bet pretty much ever imo. This is because we rarely smash the flop - the majority of flops will be marginal and tricky to play oop.

Flop - Well played. Pretty straight forward.

Turn - Well played. This hand is too weak to c/r imo. Very few hands in his range are going to fold - and we don't have a ton of equity against him. All kinds of ace high diamonds, straight draws, and QT hands are calling and most rivers will be tricky to play. Also if we get 3bet we're just in an awful spot and probably have to fold.

River - Very interesting. This is a bit of a meta game decision. Anyone in the world would know you never have QQ/TT/77 here if you lead. The question is - how will this specific villain react to this? If you have a pretty confident answer to that question - this isn't a terrible lead at all. You can induce bluffs from over aggressive players or get calls from fishy players for excellent value. As long as they make the wrong decision/you make the right decision most of the time, it's fine.
deep, raised on river after lead Quote

      
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