V is an old 70 something who I've heard is very good and from what I've seen doesn't play like any OMC I've ever seen. Seems to have just the right amount of loosenes and balance that it's hard to tell what he has.

I've shown down with him once where I had AKxx on AA5 board and we got it in otf and chopped.

Later I watched him pot the river and the guy next to me folded top two on a K65Q2 run out and my neighbor grumbled about how he always pots the river whether or not he has it

The rest of the table are just rec fish, v appears to be only good player sitting

I'm on the BB with 2k, no straddle, v (3.5k) limps UTG 2, 3 limps, I check option with QQ24

Flop (30)

QT5

Hero bets 25, v calls, rest of table calls except SB

Turn (180)

2

Hero bets 150, v calls, 3 calls

River (780)

8

I check, v pots, next v folds and says he missed a low wrap everyone else folds, I admonish second v for talking about hand while it's still live and...?

snap shove

After getting called in 4 spots it's pretty hard for one of them to have not gotten there OTR. Also hard to see villain pot the river after you check into 3 other players as well with what, missed diamonds, KJ+ etc.? some random 2p or set? He'd have to be an absolute mad man I'd think since everyone's weak/ drawish type ranges contain all the J9 combos, as well as all the missed diamonds and other draws that missed but it's hard to find a bluff with those combos in a 5-way river spot IP or not.

Some of the older blokes I play with, pot river multi-way = nuts always, but then again age reads can be misleading.

i know it's disappointing flopping a good hand and having to fold but its not even worth discussing in this spot, especially given description of villain. simply put, multiway he has the nuts here 100% of the time, never bluffs. end of story.

He is most definitely bluffing some of the time here and some things to consider:

Villian has been desribed as a good player which means he is never on the bad end of a straight draw without backup

Villian has also been described as a player willing to bluff rivers for PSBs

I think his range on flop and turn has a ton of nut diamonds in it. He doesnt have to raise anything on the flop or turn with a bunch of willing callers behind him to feed his odds but if everyone is chasing draws that leaves a bunch of his straight draws blocked

Yes its hard and possibly unprofitable to bluff the river but this guy has been around the block and perhaps there were live tells that the field was folding?

Just food for thought

I regularly play mid-high stakes live games, and neither myself or any of the other pros would make this bluff in villain's shoes with missed diamonds or other missed draw. I dare even say a lot of the aggressive rec players would realise this is just a spot you have to give up a lot. It's just too likely that hero has a strong hand that could x/c a river bet and that there's 3 more players to worry about. 70 year old guy can't be that good if he bluffs this river for pot in such an awkward sandwiched situation with pure air.

I'm interested to know what you did. You called if you thought he could bluff there, you folded if you thought he mostly had J9.

I folded yes...one of those spots where you "know" they are bluffing but you have to fold anyway and tip your hat

Good fold, you tipped your hat to J9

Live, thinking players, even those that have aggro river tendencies, know that this is amongst the worst possible bluff spots in PLO.

His bluff has to get through 3, as described, "rec" players that were paying 2 streets to draw to something - in addition to our hero. Do I really have to break it down with combo analysis?

Exactly. Super draw-heavy ranges when they x/c twice. I think this is very intuitive, breaking down combos is unnecessary because there isn't even a range of (pot sized) thin value bets or bluffs I can think of tbh.

Snap fold

How is this even a consideration

I sometimes call for balance but I think since he is leading he has it so this time I would fold

We had top SET!
and we are in love.

We have a hand with no blockers to value range and 0 equity against value range. Lol absolute value thinkers

I agree with the first reply , snap shoveeeee babay

Yes. Or fold.

And go for a rub and tug afterwards to feel better.

Semisolid. Confirm busto or robusto please?

you have to mention that more often. every sec post is not enough.

Villian is never chasing the low end of a straight, so he had to have had a wrap or low end plus FD.

In other words, most of his hands contwining 9J raise the flop. I think his range to flat both streets is naked flush draws only.

Hero wants his cards back

You should be a troll

Wait so you're meaning to tell me that there are players at drooler live stakes that would fold a draw..???

Dude you play these games, you know how loose and call happy these players are, ofcourse you can include ALL combos of J9 that x/c twice. Like these guys are ever folding lol

If he/ she really was an admitted troll I think I'd actually be pretty amused.

push/fold

Yeah i played with him again and total calling station. Good fold imo after a couple more sessions withhim

On another note where did all these a holes comw from. Ppl in PLO are generally much nicer than the HE crowd. I imagine the idiots ITF busted out long ago. Sorry for the bad luck lol