Private game with 2 whales, a couple of regulars. 5-5 with a mandatory straddle.
7 players - relevant players have approximately $3,500 to start

In the cutoff with J 7 6 4, 1 fold, hijack limps, I limp, button limps, SB BB complete and straddle checks.

Flop A 6 5 Pot $60

Checked through to the button who is one of the whales who isn't too familiar with PLO, more of a NLHE player, who bets $30, and proceeds to get 4 calls. When it gets around to me I pot it. I'm pretty sure this is where I made a really big mistake. You tell me. Button calls and the SB calls.

Turn 7 Pot $840

SB checks and I check and then the button bets pot and SB folds. Button has about $2,500 behind after the pot bet?
What's my play on the turn with the J high flush and two pair? Please comment on flop play too.

I also think I could have just mucked pre but you tell me.

Thanks.

if it's a good game, there's nothing bad limping in position with your hand, keeping the pot small to have a wide range of options.

I dislike raising OTF, for the same reason above. I don't think u make a better FD to fold (++ if the game is good), so u're just bloating the pot and your options when the flush hits are less (you lose more when behind).

As played, u can call OTT, leading when u hit one of your outs plus u can bluff on A and 5. Sometimes river is 8, it goes check/check and u could split the pot.

with 2 whales u prob shouldnt fold a lot pre for a limp. this might be one of those spots tho.

as played , id probably just call flop.

ott i lean towards folding. also, one can be a whale and play tight, if this is the case its obv easy to fold. u have only categorized him by saying hes a whale, thats not very helpful tbh. if he's rich as ****, and just likes to pot a lot. then obv call and re evaluate. if he then pots river ur in a tough spot.

Dn't fold pre I don't think. I would probably just call on the flop, but raising is totally fine, I think. There's chance to get weak showdown hands to fold and probably a Q high flush draw out, also. You could make a nitty argument for folding also because besides from a offsuit 3 what are you really hoping for?

Pretty important spot to bet on the turn, though I think. It's easy for a whale to think "any two clubs is the nuts here, especially when they all check it to me so I'll wager the maximum". It doesn't even have to be a big bet, just enough to see how he responds to it. If he raises then you can probably just fold and wait for a better spot. If he calls you can probably even value bet blank river cards.

I really like this analysis. I wasn't sure folding pre is good. Vs 2 whales it probably is fine to just limp and pot control postflop.

Oh and the whales we're both very loose and aggressive in both games. This particular whale called a raise to $50 preflop in NLHE and then called my 3bet to $300 with 53o. Just to give you guys an idea.

I definitely agree, river would be a difficult spot if i dont fill up. What would you do vs a loose aggressive whale if he pots river and i dont fill up? See above hand example for an idea of how he plays, although doesn't give much insight into his postflop PLO play come to think of it.

I like that you said don't fold pre, seems to be the consensus here. I really disagree with raising flop though. The more i think on it the more i believe it to be a huge misstep. Dont think i fold out better FDs and folding out weak showdown hands isnt a huge achievement considering my opportunities to either improve on later streets or bluff.

I really like that you mentioned a turn lead here. Nobody really said anything about this except you and i have to say i had not even considered it until this point. Definitely might have been a good play vs the whale. If he raise pot i can get away easily. I disagree a lot with following through with a river bet, i dont think we get called enough by worse hands and really dont want to be doing anything other than showing down my J hi flush unless i improve obv.

if an 8 comes on the river he'll still have a flush and he won't split anything

this helps and is needed in op

this is gonna sound mean, and i could be way off, but

-you shouldn't limp this hand. good players should limp this hand bc they know when to and when not to pile money in. think about 4 other hands that will call and you'll realize your hand isnt so good.

-your description of villain shouldn't be he has a lot of money and he's new to plo. should include specific mistakes he makes you've seen with x type of hand. not just i think he doesn't know what he's doing. \

- i typed a lot more and it sounded mean so i deleted. just make sure you have a reason to do everything you do. if op said i raised bc i thought i'd get heads up with button bc everyone calls him bc he's clueless and he's got dry 2 pair even bottom 2 very often here might even get a fold and can check most turns and get free card/valuebet rivers without him spazzing with worse and bluffing me ect.

but basis info in op you raised bc derp i has a pair straightdraw and flush draw. seems like something the whale described in op would do.

if whales have a high chance of being in the hand i'm playing this hand pre, i dislike the flop raise, you're narrowing the continuing range of hands to a range that is going to have you dominated a large amount of the time

folding turn unless i have some insane reads

Wtf I was too tired yesterday to see that the third clubs hits OTT... 8 otr doesn't change anything

Btw I'm still calling OTT. OTR we should evaluate if villain is able to bet worse hand for value. I don't think we'll see lot of bluff here, but villain seems the kind of "i have a flush, pot"

didn't see who villain who potted on turn was, if he's bad probably calling one, and bluffing some board pairing cards, if turn villain is good than pretty much what i said above

why bet turn when board pairs? just bc he's listed as loose aggressive doesnt mean he cant have a fh. op didtn say he bets 100% of the time when checked to

was talking about if you check call villain on turn with your flush, you can bluff board pairing rivers

Meh definitely not the most constructive criticism in here but your bluntness does make its point very clear. I appreciate the analysis and in the future will try to be more clear on reads of villain.

iirc he doesn't pot every chance he gets, and although he definitely fits the bill of someone who would pot a 2 pair i don't think he's extremely clueless and just further proves why me raising the flop was a horrendous blunder and that i still have a ton to learn.

Thanks again tho

if this is my plan i'd rather just fold turn.

i cant be constructive in this hand bc i wouldnt raise flop unless i knew what i would do when i made my one of my non nut draws ott. there's some players you can raise j high flushes against and bet bet and be really happy about it.

and there's some you can't.

LOL, I kinda read this thread. Less so as it went on...I can't tell if CityHunter is a level or not.

But this hand is pretty bad. If you want to play it your goal should be iso raise IP on a fish. But that doesn't work so well in PLO.

Its a fold PF in the game described or an opportunity to balance a PF range, which is prolly not worth the money it will cost you.

The R on the flop is terribad. I'd fold to the g a y flop bet OOP. As is a call might be slightly + EV when compared to a fold. But who cares, if you have **** to do on your phone take a note, the first mistake was PF.

I am done talking about this hand.

What kinds of hand would we need ott to continue vs villain's pot bet?

Do you continue with naked q or j high flush? Why about only a set?

does no one bet when this flop checks to you

Someone did mention it earlier in the thread, I think it's way better than check-raising but not sure if it's better than check-calling.