5-10 9 handed PLO. Been playing for about a few hours. I'm up ~700 from nothing crazy. At this point I prob. seen as TAG as I've won most of my hands by betting pot and no showdown.

Villain 1 (MP1) 1800 - Lost a couple of smaller hands at showdown by constantly check-checking streets. Seems to play almost anything pre flop. Calling station.

Hero (HJ) 3700 - Q 10 8 6

Villain 2 (CO) 4000 - Just bought in 2nd time. This guy has created all the action so far and cannot fold with any higher pair. He already has lost twice with AA calling AI's with only pair of AA's. Does not fold anything PF.

Preflop: V1 bets 35, Hero Calls, V2 reraises to 130, V1 and Hero call.

Flop (415): K97

V1 checks, Hero checks, V2 pots 415, V1 calls, Hero repots 1660

I obviously know 100% of the time I have the worst hand here, but was I thinking right in terms of fold equity from the other players from their ranges/stack sizes? I have only been playing hsPLO for a couple of months but I am trying new things so don't kill me if it's a horrible move lol. I just want to know if I'm on the right track here.

I was thinking that V2 could very well have Top Pair/Kicker here with AA and absolutely nothing else. I don't have any blockers to draw but any SD i hit here is the nuts. I was hoping to get a player off a non-nut FD and maybe even get TP/TK to fold since the amount he had in compared to his stack size is below 20%.

don't be too harsh!

obvious call here. u just basically said ur FE is close to zero and its very likely u get paid off on all turns that hit u.

v1 is obviously not folding anyways so I don't really see any reason to try to iso him with this hand even if v2 would fold.

I am sorry but shove is really really bad.

call

fixed your post op. you are drawing dead a lot of the time here. thats a bad wrap that you really wanna get to the river cheaply on....

good for the game.

it´s really bad, you should play around a lil bit with equities to see how different scenarios play out. you´re a big dog vs any fd, and your FE is prob very low

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: K97

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Qc8cTd6d	37.61%	217,986	15,300
hh	62.39%	366,714	15,300

you want to see the next card as cheaply as possible, so no point in bloating the pot here with aforementioned quite likely poor fe

and no, not every str8 you hit will be the nuts, and you are in really bad shape vs the legitimate wrap

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

88,560 trials (Exhaustive)

board: K97

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Qc8cTd6d	25.00%	13,382	17,519
JT8Q	75.00%	57,659	17,519

your x/r is literally setting money on fire.

Why bloat the pot oop ott with zero FE against a guy that cant fold?

Even if your draw was ahead of his range, which it easily is not as you have the weakest draw that will be continuing here, there is no point of creating a lower s/p ratio as you said this guy cant fold. Plus, you have v2 in the pot who flatted a psb oop who probably has a legit draw and could hold some of your outs.

Just try to draw as cheap as possible and let the guy hang himself when you get there.

yeah. this game is fascinating because i thought i was doing the right thing and it looks like it was the worse move. equity is so hard to figure out for me in this game =(.

i ended up winning the hand believe it or not, but i'm not happy with the play if it is long time -ev by as much as you guys are saying.

You're right, it took a surprisingly long time of studying/playing before I had a decent grasp of calculating equity for this game (and I still have a lot to learn). Smart move posting hands like this. I used to make similar raises with similar hands in similar spots, and I eventually learned they were terrible plays by getting wrecked with them Perhaps you can avoid that fate.

The point I want to make about this hand is that your hand strength is not good at all. I get that you want to play strong hands fast vs. this guy, but this is not a strong hand.

This is your equity vs. ANY RANDOM HAND (including 2222):

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	55.53%	323,812	18,692
*	44.47%	257,496	18,692

3 key things make this such a weak hand

- You have no pair. This reduces your equity more than you might think. You basically need to hit your straight or backdoor flush to win, you have absolutely no showdown value right now.
- There is a flush draw and you have no hearts. This is key, you can hit a straight with 17 cards...

JJJJ
TTT
888
666
5555

...but 5 of them put a flush on the board, so you're really only drawing to 12 clean outs. This makes a really big difference, you would be faring so much better on a rainbow board. Not to mention even if you hit a clean straight, you can still get outdrawn on by flush draws/2 pair hands/sets.
- You are not drawing to the nuts with most of your straights. Any J, T, or 8 does not give you the nut straight. So these outs may not even be good if you hit them.

Given all of this, you only have 6 outs to the nuts, and as mentioned before your straight is still vulnerable once it's made.

You are behind so many hands:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

1,136,520 trials (Exhaustive)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	27.84%	248,589	135,686
qjt	72.16%	752,245	135,686

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

7,880,200 trials (Exhaustive)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	40.30%	3,036,569	278,933
jt	59.70%	4,564,698	278,933

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

863,460 trials (Exhaustive)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	41.01%	263,154	181,872
k86	58.99%	418,434	181,872

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	37.47%	217,047	15,491
hh	62.53%	367,462	15,491

to list a few...

...and you're barely ahead when you're up against a pair...

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

4,169,700 trials (Exhaustive)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	56.36%	2,336,809	26,811
aa	43.64%	1,806,080	26,811

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	52.26%	307,688	11,775
k	47.74%	280,537	11,775

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

2,152,500 trials (Exhaustive)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	53.27%	1,116,259	60,833
qq	46.73%	975,408	60,833

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	52.34%	307,768	12,565
9	47.66%	279,667	12,565

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: k79

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
qc8ctd6d	55.28%	325,514	12,285
7	44.72%	262,201	12,285

(Why not having a pair ourselves really hurts our equity)

So when I flop a hand like this, I'm not thinking, "Oh man I flopped a wrap!!!! Time to get it in!!!!!" Instead I'm thinking, "Ack. Proceeding with caution, calling flop and prepared to give up several turn cards."

As for bombing it to get FE, I don't understand why you are trying to get FE from a calling station and a whale? V1 could easily go with something light, he's going to go with so many draws/combo draws in this spot. And since we are pretty behind hands as simple as JT or hh, this is never a profitable move. You want to wait until you have awesome equity to make this play vs these villains.

With all due respect,

Flushes beat straights

Flush draws have more outs than regular straight draws

It's not exactly something that should take you a long time of your poker career to work out that straight draws should be played with extreme caution on flushing boards

nice post, there´s all you need OP

wazz, very useful post on your part too...

repot would be 2075

discgolfing is 100% correct here in my opinion. When playing cards with a gap at the top we have to be careful when flopping any kind of wrap because in this situation (as noted in the calulations) QT86 is getting free-rolled by QJT8, especially if two of the cards are suited in hearts in this situation. A gap at the top is much weaker than a gap at the bottom of your cards.

QJT8 > QT98
QJ86 > QT86

AC

Once again: newsflash! Higher cards better than lower cards.

Though in fairness this does constitute part of my setup: