400PLO: Top2 and 2nd NFD - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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400PLO: Top2 and 2nd NFD

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02-23-2010 , 09:28 AM

HustlerLA

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,079

Should I just 3bet the flop to prevent myself making mistakes on later streets?
Villain is playing 81/27/2.6AF, over 100hands. Wow just saw his stack! heeeater.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $4(BB) Replayer
Hero ($689)
BB ($140)
UTG ($325)
CO ($5,357)
BTN ($822)

Dealt to Hero 8

fold, CO calls $4, fold, Hero calls $2, BB raises to $16, CO calls $12, Hero calls $12

FLOP ($48) 4

Hero bets $34, BB folds, CO raises to $150, Hero calls $116

TURN ($348) 4

Hero checks, CO checks

RIVER ($348) 4

Hero checks, CO bets $348, Hero folds

CO wins $345

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02-23-2010 , 09:38 AM

Adiprene1

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,170

yes, play for it all on flop.

as played, you've underrepped your hand bigtime and i never ever c/f river. if you're so sure he'll only bet the nuts then lead out and muck to a raise.

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02-23-2010 , 10:08 AM

HustlerLA

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,079

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adiprene1

yes, play for it all on flop.

as played, you've underrepped your hand bigtime and i never ever c/f river. if you're so sure he'll only bet the nuts then lead out and muck to a raise.

I felt like his betsizing on river polorized his range completely, and given that he didnt have a wrap due to the turn check, he would have to be turning a made hand into a bluff for me to be good here, which I dont expect a fish to do. I guess a small b/f is best vs this villain.

I think I should have 3bet the flop to avoid these tough decisions.

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02-23-2010 , 10:33 AM

Hattifnatt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,414

I prefer shoving the flop.

I dont mind the river c/f as played. small b/f on the river is not a good option at all.

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02-23-2010 , 10:47 AM

secondnuts

adept

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,109

Auto shov the flop. Why the flat?

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02-23-2010 , 05:58 PM

HustlerLA

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,079

His flop range may be something like this:
Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: 9d8s4s
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
ts9sks8h 41.30% 246,713 2,221
tjsqs*,99**,88**,7stjsQ,asa*s*,astjs* 58.70% 351,066 2,221

So on turn we can take out all the TJ** hands given he checked.
On river, he shouldnt be betting any sets, so he'd have to be betting a flush. Given that for him to have a Q-high flush he'd most likely have a str8 on turn with it, I think he is showing up with the nuts here especially coupled with potting the river.
Wierd spot though since, the only hand in the above range I lose to is AsA*s*

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02-23-2010 , 06:00 PM

HustlerLA

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,079

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondnuts

Auto shov the flop. Why the flat?

I am not ahead of his range, so I flatted. I think I prefer it if I can play turns and rivers well, but that part is debatable.

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02-23-2010 , 06:38 PM

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Calling is only going to be better then shipping flop if you can force villain into making fundamental theorem of poker mistakes later on in the hand.

How do you plan to do this?

fwiw its actually to your benefit being first to act, I belive that if your going to call the flop the turn is a mandatory shove.

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02-23-2010 , 07:01 PM

HustlerLA

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,079

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

Hmmm turn donk shove is pretty sexay. Do you think I get a fold out of sets here?

I figured Id be crushed by the TJ** hands, can someone please help me figure out why I still have 38% equity vs this hand? I only see me having 7 outs, what am I missing?

dead cards: 9d8s4sqc
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
astjs* 61.63% 366,100 7,416
ts9sks8h 38.37% 226,484 7,416

Last edited by HustlerLA; 02-23-2010 at 07:16 PM.

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02-23-2010 , 07:44 PM

#10

dutchhen

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 212

Quote:

Originally Posted by HustlerLA

If he has J 10 w/spades, you have 9 outs, no?

A jack will give you the nut straight.

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02-23-2010 , 08:00 PM

#11

HustlerLA

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,079

Quote:

Originally Posted by dutchhen

If he has J 10 w/spades, you have 9 outs, no?

A jack will give you the nut straight.

3 Jacks, 2 8's and 2 9's : 7 outs; thats all I see. BUt even if it was 9 outs, thats not 38% equity, something's wrong.

Last edited by HustlerLA; 02-23-2010 at 08:16 PM.

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02-23-2010 , 08:02 PM

#12

Peeda

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 480

Quote:

Originally Posted by HustlerLA

I am not ahead of his range, so I flatted. I think I prefer it if I can play turns and rivers well, but that part is debatable.

I think the range is too pessimistic, this is like a nit's raising range. This guy is some nutball playing every hand he'll have like 94TJ and just stack off probably, I think you have his range crushed, def shove.

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02-24-2010 , 12:59 AM

#13

Deal'Em

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 119

Fist pump shove flop v super loose opponent...dominate worse flush draws, freeroll some top twos. Get it in.

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02-24-2010 , 01:38 AM

#14

HustlerLA

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,079

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deal'Em

Fist pump shove flop v super loose opponent...dominate worse flush draws, freeroll some top twos. Get it in.

I think this is prob correct, i gave his range too much credit.

Can someone please help me firgure why propkertools says i have 38% eq vs TJ+NFD on turn?

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02-24-2010 , 02:04 AM

#15

Scar18

adept

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,000

Quote:

Originally Posted by HustlerLA

I think this is prob correct, i gave his range too much credit.

Can someone please help me firgure why propkertools says i have 38% eq vs TJ+NFD on turn?

you have put the board in as the cards, ive done it several times myself

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02-24-2010 , 07:22 AM

#16

HustlerLA

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,079

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scar18

you have put the board in as the cards, ive done it several times myself

Ahh u left out "dead" but but still I got it. thanks!

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02-24-2010 , 09:54 AM

#17

wazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14,755

Bad players with this stack are much much much more likely to be ok getting it in on this flop drawing to very little (well, I'm up so much already, I'll gamble with my top pair + gutshot, he probably just has a flush draw) than if he was evens.

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02-24-2010 , 06:24 PM

#18

smittymatt

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by HustlerLA

I am not ahead of his range, so I flatted. I think I prefer it if I can play turns and rivers well, but that part is debatable.

Don't agree that you are not ahead of his range. I'm a nitfish and would raise/call with wraps w/o a FD in his spot. He's a fish fish so he can probably do this with even worse.

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