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Old 02-06-2012, 03:38 PM   #1
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3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

Villain plays 42/26 over about 100 hands, his aggression frequencies are on the high side but nowhere out of line, no reads besides that.

BTN: $1541.51
Hero (SB): $2005.60
BB: $627.45
UTG: $1383.29
CO: $177.00

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is SB with 9 J K Q
UTG raises to $18, 2 folds, Hero calls $15, 1 fold

Flop: ($42.00) 9 T 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $24.00, Hero raises to $90, UTG calls $66

Turn: ($222.00) K (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $114.00, Hero calls $114

River: ($450.00) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $225.00, UTG raises to $1125, Hero folds

I am usually more on the stationary side but I don't see villain shoving anything I beat when my line reps TT so well.

Thoughts?
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:49 PM   #2
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

looks that way
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:57 PM   #3
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

wow. I'm really interested in what people will say.. but wait. When beaten, it's like TT 98% of the time?

I think he might have lone 9 like 89JAhh trying to move you from straight? Or even same hand (K9?).
Given him not 3betting flop (definitely could have TT but some of the time he will be 3betting for sure) is making this a little more of a call + first reason..

At the end of all, if you fold this - what is your calling range in this spot then? like KK only?
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:06 PM   #4
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

raise turn. call river.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:17 PM   #5
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

whats up with the fps line after the flop
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:22 PM   #6
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

One question pumps into my head when looking at that hand -> "What the **** are you doing?!?"

On a more serious note - this deep and out of position raise more on the flop; the only reason to check turn is to c/r, c/c oop this deep blows my mind; c/c river >>> b/f as he has so much air on the turn (lots of QQxx and JJxx which have to continue on the river).

As played, I call the river because your hand is seriously underrepped. If I was villain, I'll be inclined to continue with my turn bluff cause your line simply doesn't make any sense. The only hand I see that beats you is KKxx with a Q or a J in it.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:32 PM   #7
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexonja View Post
wow. I'm really interested in what people will say.. but wait. When beaten, it's like TT 98% of the time?

I think he might have lone 9 like 89JAhh trying to move you from straight? Or even same hand (K9?).
Given him not 3betting flop (definitely could have TT but some of the time he will be 3betting for sure) is making this a little more of a call + first reason..

At the end of all, if you fold this - what is your calling range in this spot then? like KK only?
EDIT:
I missreaded hand, I thought u bet the turn.
lol
bet this turn.
If you check - it should be for c/r (and you can freeroll on him if he's also having straight).
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:53 PM   #8
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by antchev View Post
On a more serious note - this deep and out of position raise more on the flop; the only reason to check turn is to c/r, c/c oop this deep blows my mind; c/c river >>> b/f as he has so much air on the turn (lots of QQxx and JJxx which have to continue on the river).
This.

c/c turn is horrendous. You are missing the chance to get value from so many inferior holdings, and even when you are behind, it's rarely by much, so you have ever reason to be fearless.

As played, Villain's betting range on the river if you check is probably wider than his calling range if you bet, and calling a reraise on this board is no fun.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:59 PM   #9
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

c/c vs some aggressive opponents is nowhere near as bad as you guys are making out. a lot of his range is dead vs you on this turn, hands like J78x, 789x, and many will fire two barrels. Our freeroll is not that significant with it only being 2 pair, if we had a flush draw it's gotta be a raise.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:31 PM   #10
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

how do you not raise the turn?
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:21 AM   #11
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckBass View Post
c/c vs some aggressive opponents is nowhere near as bad as you guys are making out. a lot of his range is dead vs you on this turn, hands like J78x, 789x, and many will fire two barrels.
Yeah but shouldn´t we also check river for that reason?
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:25 AM   #12
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by tizzl View Post
Yeah but shouldn´t we also check river for that reason?
No, our line reps a boat too hard to expect a river bet. Whole hand is fine as long as we fold the river.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:26 AM   #13
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo View Post
This.

c/c turn is horrendous. You are missing the chance to get value from so many inferior holdings, and even when you are behind, it's rarely by much, so you have ever reason to be fearless.

As played, Villain's betting range on the river if you check is probably wider than his calling range if you bet, and calling a reraise on this board is no fun.
Glad this hand created some discussion but I disagree with what you wrote. After thinking about it for a while I have to say that while I am usually a mass grinding regfish this turn play is actually pretty good.

On a T92rb flop UTG vs BB when both players have close to zero history and there is a check raise and a call >200bb deep peoples ranges are very narrow. I raise TT, T9 with straight outs and wraps that make the nuts and I just call 99(22) and stuff like j87 that can't call a 3b on the flop but are to strong to raise/fold. Villain will not know this and could give me credit for some more weak wraps. About half the deck changes the nuts on the turn so the main value in raising TT on the flop is to possibly overset villain.

When UTG calls the c/r on the flop his range is very kqj87 heavy with a few 2 pair, sets and floats with blockers. Me betting the turn achieves very little against this range especially I am not missing "value from so many inferior holdings" but I am folding out his floats and j87 kind of hands that will double barrel this turn if I check because I look so much like a set and will likely not be able to call a 100bb bet on a brick river. I would also always check my sets on the turn because The K hits his flop bet-calling range pretty hard and both bet-folding and bet-calling sucks in this spot. My turn betting range would be very polarized and very strong. If villain does indeed have QJ I will be able to bluff him off a flip on the river when the board pairs after I c/c turn.

As played on the river I am intending to get a bad hero call from QJ but I'd expect villain to check back QJ and give up with his air if I check because I have a boat here very often the way I played the hand. As mentioned in OP I don't really see him trying to bluff me off anything because my line is very consistent with TT/99 and he represents very narrow but at the same time it feels sick to fold when villains value range is one combination of KK.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:12 AM   #14
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

If you are going to have such a nitty/value only range then sure your assumptions are correct, I'd personally build my flop range here differently so that I could be betting this turn when I hit the nuts.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:27 AM   #15
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Re: 3/6 euro deep, boat gets shoved on on river

i am calling river. your size + he could have KQTx make me want call. also his line doesn't match w/ TT or KK. ok, could be KKQ/KKJ, but those are hard for him to have given our hand.

mrw8419, do you bet TT87 on this turn? you bet to get value from ? i am not saying what you said is wrong, i am just asking because i am also lost on how to play this turn.
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