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2/4 rivered underhouse

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07-29-2009 , 03:53 PM

Praetor

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,807

Party Poker $400.00 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $390.10
BTN: $704.00
SB: $336.20
BB: $483.35
Hero (UTG): $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is UTG with 9

Hero raises to $14, CO calls $14, 2 folds, BB calls $10

Flop: ($44.00) A

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $32.00, CO calls $32, BB folds

Turn: ($108.00) J

(2 players)
Hero bets $84.00, CO calls $84

River: ($276.00) A

(2 players)

Vs normal tags/decent players with no special reads or history, what is the standard river line

Do they have QT/naked trips enough? Busted draws enough to check call?

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07-29-2009 , 05:49 PM

lucid75

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,909

i think c/c is about right. I don't think normal tags have aces up here too often, more often flushdraws i think.

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07-29-2009 , 09:38 PM

cmyr

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,048

against normal regs it's probably a c/f, honestly. you could bet/fold but there's probably not tons of value in it, and it would take someone fairly frisky to bluff this river I think.

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07-29-2009 , 10:17 PM

tdomeski

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Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 8,321

120 and call seems about right to me

i feel like his range is a few 8's full and some flush draws and the occasional QT

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07-29-2009 , 10:59 PM

Scary_Tiger

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 21,487

I think check/call is good. You don't have to worry about AAxx, we have blockers to AKxx, and AJxx and A8xx are both very marginal on the turn. I think if we bet, we should fold to a raise, as I don't think we get bluffraised here ever. I mean, we have so many houses in our range it's absurd when we lead. Since we don't induce a bluff by betting, I think we have a better shot by checking and hoping he has Q

xx or something. Also a hand like 88xx might value bet for you, looking to get value from QTxx or whatever.

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07-30-2009 , 01:49 AM

JROSEALM

banned

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,537

a normal tag NEVER has QT here ever. most people don't show up with QT here often, really.

do you really think any normal tag would smooth call the turn here with QT when they can basically get their entire stack in?

and i'd c/f against the majority of people, most people don't get to the river with stuff they'd be bluffing with here (esp. when your hand looks strong) and you can't count on a normal tag betting a naked ace cause YOU could very well have QT or a boat.

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07-31-2009 , 05:39 AM

oleary

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 31

Can we not happily check call to induce a bad bluff from missed flush draws?

Wouldn't he have already re-raised AA on the flop? Unless it was with hearts which is extremely unlikely.

And isn't it tough to value bet AJ and A8, or even call the turn with those?

It just looks so much like a busted flush draw to me, that I don't see value in betting the river (although he could have a set of 8's or even QT, but I think he shoves the turn with that most of the time), and I can't see folding to a bet to be good either??

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07-31-2009 , 05:59 AM

Roy

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,447

Bet like $99 and fold to a raise.

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08-02-2009 , 12:25 AM

chucky

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,998

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy

Bet like $99 and fold to a raise.

To get value against what?

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08-02-2009 , 03:52 AM

#10

mixmastermattyk

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 541

I think this is closest to a c/f.

It's tough but close. As JROSEALM said, most TAGs are never showing up with QT here when they could shove the turn. The most likely hands to me look like AK/A8/AJ with hearts.

Most tags are checking back a naked ace as well I feel so the only hands that are betting the river here imo are air and boats, although I'm not sure how often someone will have a go with complete air given the scary looking board and the interest you've shown so far. Any river bet is a blocker so if you feel you need to protect yourself from a bluff verse this opponent, go ahead and bet something ~$100. Otherwise I think c/f is the best way to go.

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08-02-2009 , 11:49 AM

#11

jackwilcox

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,843

part of me thinks that when we check this river any competent hand reader will put us on check/trapping since our line looks pretty strong and that ace is more likely to help us than weaken us.

i dont think he has QT ever. whether he will value bet Axxx/ 88xx is the question, i think he should be checking those back a lot though obv cos we never call with worse

so c/f is good

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08-02-2009 , 02:30 PM

#12

Pokerpudel

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 356

how would you guys play if u have the Qhigh FD here and bet flop and turn? c/f? Or would you triple barrel this one? I think we should bet here because he might put us on a missed FD right?

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08-02-2009 , 03:46 PM

#13

jackwilcox

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,843

with bare Q high flush draw we dont have showdown value so would have to bet. with KK we beat a lot of his likely hands, but that doesnt mean that he will ever call a bet with them

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08-03-2009 , 03:32 PM

#14

HustlerLA

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,079

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackwilcox

with bare Q high flush draw we dont have showdown value so would have to bet. with KK we beat a lot of his likely hands, but that doesnt mean that he will ever call a bet with them

If we arent betting this river with KK than we should be c/f'ing missed Qhigh FD as well. Just because we have no SD value doesnt mean we have to bet; we are allowed to lose a pot. I would barell any blank river though with the missed FD.

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08-03-2009 , 05:40 PM

#15

Praetor

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,807

the more I think about this river the more I think its a check fold

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08-03-2009 , 06:30 PM

#16

cts

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I'd c/f vs most, maybe call if the price is really good

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08-03-2009 , 06:38 PM

#17

uphigh_downlow

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Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,222

"Vs normal tags/decent players with no special reads or history, what is the standard river line"

C/F > B/F > C/C

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