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High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 03-14-2017, 09:07 AM   #1
masterxed
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10/25 PLO - 6-handed

10/25 PLO - 6 handed
Hero has a TAG solid image. ($7k) has 9922 in CO. Folds around to Hero who min raises to $50.
Villain ($9k) most solid reg at the table, 3b on the button to $200. SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: AQ2r

BB Checks, Hero checks, Villain bets out $400, SB folds. Action is back on Hero.

How do we play this hand to extract maximum value? Check-raise flop? Smooth then wait for turn and check raise there? Or just smooth check-call all the way down on a bricked board?

Let's say turn is a 7, bringing two spades. Do we opt for a check raise here or ever lead on the turn?
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:26 AM   #2
lucaspawpaw16
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

What is villains button 3 bet button range. Have you seen him 3 bet other than AAxx.? What does he cbet with vs checking here?


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Old 03-14-2017, 09:29 AM   #3
White Rook
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

You have a bluff catcher, do you want to get it in 300bb by raising?
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:05 AM   #4
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

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Originally Posted by lucaspawpaw16 View Post
What is villains button 3 bet button range. Have you seen him 3 bet other than AAxx.? What does he cbet with vs checking here?


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He's a solid reg. All solid reg's are not only 3b'ing with AAxx on the button... and to answer your question, yes. He's also labeled as a solid TAG as well.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:06 AM   #5
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

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Originally Posted by White Rook View Post
You have a bluff catcher, do you want to get it in 300bb by raising?
So what is the optimal play here? Check call all 3 streets if it runs blank.. or...? What's our plan after he bets $400 on the flop?
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:28 AM   #6
White Rook
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

We are not folding on the flop, after all depends on the cards to come.

Now, if you had aces pre do you ever 4 bet 300bb deep oop? this is important because range protection.

In general I would say if the boards bricks it is better to call down with AQ type hands then 22.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:18 AM   #7
lucaspawpaw16
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10/25 PLO - 6-handed

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterxed View Post
He's a solid reg. All solid reg's are not only 3b'ing with AAxx on the button... and to answer your question, yes. He's also labeled as a solid TAG as well.


I call flop and lead turn. A solid reg should check back turn unless he's ahead which sucks.


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Old 03-14-2017, 12:46 PM   #8
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

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Originally Posted by White Rook View Post
We are not folding on the flop, after all depends on the cards to come.

Now, if you had aces pre do you ever 4 bet 300bb deep oop? this is important because range protection.

In general I would say if the boards bricks it is better to call down with AQ type hands then 22.
He's seen me 4b aces pre, but it's not always my standard play. Not sure if he knows that though.

So again, does this mean you are check calling flop? What if a 7 comes on the turn bringing 2 spades, what's your play Rook?
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:21 PM   #9
White Rook
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

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He's seen me 4b aces pre, but it's not always my standard play. Not sure if he knows that though.

So again, does this mean you are check calling flop? What if a 7 comes on the turn bringing 2 spades, what's your play Rook?
Depend of many things but in a vacuo I check call turn.
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Old 03-14-2017, 05:40 PM   #10
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

you shouldnt rly have a c/r bluffing range on a board like this with the action. while he should be barreling very frequently. this hands fits quite well into a x/c range
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:32 PM   #11
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

I think given the description of villian, his range is way wider than AAxx. You dont fold the flop, but how he proceeds on turn should give you some idea of how to narrow his range. If you pick up the added equity on the turn im prob c/c turn/river unless an A or Q falls.
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:38 PM   #12
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

Call, lead brick turns somewhere between 25%-35%

Nonbricks need more info on villain
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:38 PM   #13
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

Monikrazy, are you instamucking if your lead on turn gets clicked back?
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:17 PM   #14
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

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Monikrazy, are you instamucking if your lead on turn gets clicked back?
I prob fold yes, our turn lead should be an uncapped range, including aaa, qqq, is opponent going to rep blockers against the unlikely holding of 222
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Old 03-15-2017, 07:44 PM   #15
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

wp moni wp
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:13 AM   #16
AveeMaria
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

Don't love a turn lead against a competent player, particularly this deep.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:57 AM   #17
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

I didn't even know donk leading was actually a viable play?

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Old 03-16-2017, 07:24 AM   #18
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

I have no problem with the turn lead, but 25% 1/4 pot?

It is rare but I am open to be convinced.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:48 AM   #19
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

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Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
I prob fold yes, our turn lead should be an uncapped range, including aaa, qqq, is opponent going to rep blockers against the unlikely holding of 222
I doubt hero has a lot of AA in his range tbh. Not because he didn't 4-bet, but because he min-raised pre. That means he's either (1) min-raising range pre OR (2) splitting range between min and pot.

I would consider the former case of always min-raising to definitely be less +EV than just potting, and if Hero is as competent as he is perceived to be ("TAG solid image"), then villain should be able to eliminate that possibility. (Unless of course, hero is always min-raising, in which case he should work on his game and not be playing $10/25).

So that leaves the latter case, where hero is splitting range between min-raising and pot. In that situation, it's unlikely Hero is putting a lot of AA in that min-raising range which means when he gets 3-bet after min-raising, he has little to no AA.

Therefore, we have a relatively capped range on the turn, with QQQ being our strongest hand.

I expect that if you look at the range vs. range equity distribution heading to the turn, villain will have both a nut and equity advantage. Neither of those should favor leading.

Also, we cannibalize a lot of our checking range by leading strong hands such as QQQ & 222. Additionally, villain has a pretty sweet turn lead blocker raise with any Qx given that we will be lead/folding 222 and QQQ is the strongest possible hand in our range (which he would then block).
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:00 AM   #20
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

If Hero is splitting his pre-flop range between min and pot, he's picked the nut worst table dynamic to do so: with having the best player to his left at 300bb effective.

If BTN is as good as Hero thinks, then he should be able to punish Hero's weakened and likely ill-constructed and unbalanced min raising range.

Also, 2299 is the wrong hand to be putting in any sort of split min-raising range (and I don't like splitting at all from anywhere except potentially the BTN). Its set value decreases as more players enter the pot, and by min-raising, you have increased the likelihood that the pot goes multiway, thereby decreasing the value of your hand.

Last edited by Antidote; 03-17-2017 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:02 AM   #21
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

Also, flop is a 100% c/c. The idea of C/R-ing shouldn't even cross your mind at this stack depth.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:48 AM   #22
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

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Originally Posted by White Rook View Post
I have no problem with the turn lead, but 25% 1/4 pot?

It is rare but I am open to be convinced.

Was specifying lead frequency, not sizing.. small bet would not be my norm
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:28 PM   #23
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

antidote tbh that was too much. i thought moni was trolling bc his strat suggestion was so bad but apparently not^
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:25 AM   #24
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

I don't know if ur range is capped or not when u min raise the co pre and don't 4b but it sure looks like it is so I would not donk/fold turn and prob either c/c 3 streets or give up early (like turn) and try to either have a nutted hand when my range is percieved capped or have balanced perceived ranges cause this is how you get in super exploitable spots and people in these games will exploit u when u play with them more. And before you say that's what the big games are for and I can out mind game them just think of how much your losing by having a min raise range that's balanced in the co 300bb deep in a loose live game.

I always c/c 3 streets here btw if I raise my normal size pre. Good bluff catcher cause ur not blocking any of his bluffs which have ax and qx in them and he might value own himself w/ aq on dry runouts. Can fold to broadway cards and backdoors that hit but honestly those are his best bluff run outs so I dont. Depends how ur viewed too. If your viewed as sticky c/c river is usually terrible as bluffing that is lighting money on fire

Last edited by smoothcriminal99; 03-19-2017 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:08 PM   #25
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Re: 10/25 PLO - 6-handed

Check call turn and check fold river seems fine on bricks with this hand.
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