You think 2 pair and wraps are re-potting this this deep on a rainbow board?

What are the reasons for you disliking the 4b oop deep v this villain? Is it because the equity we push pre doesn't get us enough value relative to the times we fold equity post / get outplayed post vs a reg? What if we could make the SPR 6 instead of 10 on the flop?

I would also assume the reg, if a live reg, is somewhere between okay and good, maybe something akin to a slightly winning plo200 stars player.

a guy who 3bets 6778 and plays this deep and is playing against spewmonster mcgee bigasiaok...yes definitely yes

just too damn deep and out of position against someone who is obviously going to make our life tough

I don't think you are pushing nearly enough equity vs a capable player this deep OOP to justify a 4bet here. The smaller you can make the SPR, the more appealing the 4bet becomes because you are going to much happier to get it in on a much wider range of flops. This deep there aren't many flops at all that you are going to love getting it in on, including this one where you are kind of forced to get it in as played vs villian but never too happy about it.

The second part of your post is the type of logic I see on here a lot and I think is pretty much pointless. Live and online are completely different games. Yes, online is much tougher, but there is no accurate way to determine a correlation between a live regs skill and online grinders skill. The live reg may be doing things that would be awful online, but they work very well in his regular game. Just like the online grinder may be doing things that work well in his regular game, but would not work in a live game. From my experience the more difficult players to play against live are the ones who sit very deep and do a fair amount of spewy stuff, but in general are fairly difficult to play against, and generally get away with murder because of the softer makeup of live games. I guess we'd have to ask OP for a confirmation on this though, as this guy could just be some awful spewmonkey.

The 4bettor is very solid in general. In my opinion he has a tendency to over play spots such as this (the main reason for me posting it). The 3bettor is extremely aggro, definitely spewy but he's capable and is going to be tough to battle out of position. This would also be why I agree with Dankness and wouldn't be 4betting here

Also 'spewmonstermcgee' 😂enjoyed that.

I was definitely at prime spew mode when we played Krmont. I can slow down...sometimes

Anybody likes 4b small with range in this spot?

I'm with krmont, I never like to 4bet here this deep. I also think that whether you check call or just bet out depends on how much variance you are willing to take on. If you're raised, I don't think you should ever fold, but are also never in a dominant spot. And it'd be a disaster if villain has an AA hand with straight draws.

I do think I would lean to check calling here though as we can keep a lot of hands we are crushing here in the hand, and potentially stab with (like QQJT or a lot of JT type hands). I just think betting out on this texture of a flop allows a good villain to play optimally in position vs you.

I think when we 4bet this deep OOP, this is a dream GII flop. Although I'm not happy to GII, the 4bettor should have spent the $1300 for a good night out instead of building that pot if this is a sick spot for him.

Honestly though, when we put in 50BB pre in a 10/25 PLO game OOP, do you usually expect to flop top set + FD? This is more than strong enough to just go with it, also seems absurd to think this splashy 3bettor is going to be nitty enough to be sitting with sets only, I'd expect him to raise extremely light considering this texture is really bad for the 4bettor.

Just saying though, if I'm the 3 better flatting pre, sort of clownish, I'm gonna make this sob fear for his life when he has the balls to 4bet me OOP with a 1kbb stack... So yeah I'm gonna raise with alot less than sets, I'd include all JJT8 JT97 AT97 AT98 type hands, they are doing a lot better by getting folds from KKxx and AAxx now than trying to improve

How old is this thread?

By looking at the date bro, I'd say 3 weeks? but maybe im just cra cra

Some answers seems pretty much like plo could have been played long time ago, i really doubted replies dates were accurate.
Wtf is cra cra

man idk why i talk to you, you own me so bad.
cra cra---as in short for crazy?

although I agree, this seems like such an oldschool way of playing..today this is not really a tough spot

I have to strongly disagree with this unless villian range is super AA heavy

This cant be serious , i feel most replies are with the intention of trolling me . Getting leveled pretty hard right now ...

when you get to the flop the way you do, if villain is very splashy B/shove I think is the best play. If he is not super splashy I prefer C/C

Run it twice

As for pre… Get Sauce/Ben in here

just for the record, more info on dynamics and why the hand was so lively discussed afterwards by the players? im interested in the aftermath of the hand

This is a good thread

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Very interesting spot. I like dankness3's analysis. I'd like to consider one other variable: bet size. How often does villain bet the pot vs. bet or raise smaller than the pot? His pot bet is huge and seems quite committing. If he were trying to make a steal, then wouldn't it be more likely that he would raise your bet 3x or so? That's what I would do, and I would expect it would put you in a gross spot with most of your range. If villain thinks like this (which you might know by paying attention to his bet sizing), then I like the CBet on the flop, with the intention of shoving over a small raise. However, once he bets pot, you can assume that he has a hand with very strong equity (monster wrap at a minimum).

With that in mind, I think a fold vs. his pot raise is probably the best move. I'm really not sure if you have enough implied odds if you hit your straight (King should get paid off, however). Of course, if the implied odds aren't there, then that should imply that you have fold equity if a scare card hits, such as an 8. That may be true. Again, my hunch is that a fold to the flop raise is the correct move, but I'm not sure.

I'd like to consider preflop play as well. KK32ds can be a tricky hand to play OOP deep. Going against AAxx would be a nightmare, so I'd like to ask: how often would he 5-bet AAxx preflop? If he would always or most of the time, I think the 4-bet is good simply for the reason that we can eliminate AAxx from his range when he doesn't 5-bet. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the best move would be. I would play around in this spot a lot, but I generally prefer to have the initiative going into the flop. So, I like a 4-bet or a limp-reraise against certain opponents.