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Fight for Poker Rights (PPA) Discussions on actions the Poker Players Alliance and individual poker players are taking to advocate for poker rights at the local, state, and federal levels.

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Old 10-28-2011, 09:23 AM   #1
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Va. Poker Players Unite for the Cause (Poker Palace)

I just received this email this morning from the Poker Palace in Portsmouth Va., Unite For Our Rights!
We need your support!

Dear Poker Palace Supporter,


The Poker Palace is asking for your help! We would like to invite all supporters to come to the General District Civil Court in Portsmouth, Virginia on November 9, 2011 at 9 AM, to show your support for the Poker Palace, its' players, and charities.



Barry Taylor, the lead attorney on the case, has been working with the Poker Palace management and the Poker Players Alliance for over a year and has shown great diligence and legal skills through many hearings to advance our contention that poker is a game of skill and NOT a game of chance. At trial these views will be demonstrated by experts and players from the WPT and WSOP testifying exactly why any poker player who has developed proficiency in all the different facets of the game of poker will always win, in the long term, over chance.



By showing your support in person, your voice will be heard loud and clear supporting the game of poker and your right to play and improve your poker skills in a secure and organized venue. We have enjoyed five years of poker in the City of Portsmouth and with your support we were able to donate over $600,000 to local charities. The outcome of this trial could very well bring poker back to Portsmouth and help fill the coffers of charities in need around the area.



The media will be there; we all need to keep control and conduct ourselves as ladies and gentlemen in and out of the courtroom.
The proper court attire rules will apply; No shorts, flip flops, or wife beaters please. Collared shirts are fine to dress your best.
Greg "Fossilman" Raymer is a professional poker player. He is best known for winning the 2004 WSOP Main Event while wearing his signature strange eye glasses. Mr. Raymer will be providing expert testimony for the Poker Player's Alliance. Please do not crowd him as he makes his way in or out of the courtroom. Unfortunately, Mr. Raymer's schedule will not allow time for him to meet with his fans.
Dr. Robert Hannum, Professor of Statistics at the University of Denver and James Klinedinst, Professor of Mathematics, will be testifying as experts in the case on our behalf.
Our Tournament Director, Joe Simmonds, be available to answer your questions, so please direct them to him and not to Poker Palace management or the PPA lawyers and staff as they will be busy presenting the case to the court.
The judge will likely choose to write an opinion of his ruling in this case, so we may not have a decision on court day. We will explain what we know after court and any decisions we receive, via e-mail, our website, and our Facebook page.
We look forward to seeing you, November 9, 2011 at 9 AM. Thank you in advance, for your continued support!



Sincerely,

The Poker Palace Management
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:23 PM   #2
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Re: Va. Poker Players Unite for the Cause (Poker Palace)

4 hr drive, and i got school. Can't make it
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:57 PM   #3
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Re: Va. Poker Players Unite for the Cause (Poker Palace)

I got this email too. It seems to imply there will be multiple WPT and WSOP experts but lists only Greg Raymer.

...Raymer is unquestionably one of the best possible people to call upon.

But who else might be called? We need hall of famer Mike Sexton. Is he available? I recall a raided home game case in South Carolina (if memory serves) that he testified in.

Poker Palace was seemingly an honest, fair, and safe place to play poker in Virginia. They donated hundreds of thousands of dollars toward helping people. The only alternatives in the area are seedy underground games and very long trips out of state. Best of luck on the 9th.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:55 PM   #4
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Re: Va. Poker Players Unite for the Cause (Poker Palace)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00s View Post
I got this email too. It seems to imply there will be multiple WPT and WSOP experts but lists only Greg Raymer.

...Raymer is unquestionably one of the best possible people to call upon.

But who else might be called? We need hall of famer Mike Sexton. Is he available? I recall a raided home game case in South Carolina (if memory serves) that he testified in.

Poker Palace was seemingly an honest, fair, and safe place to play poker in Virginia. They donated hundreds of thousands of dollars toward helping people. The only alternatives in the area are seedy underground games and very long trips out of state. Best of luck on the 9th.
The Poker Palace, IMHO, is exactly the kind of business that any sensible community would welcome with open arms. The PPA is proud to be assisting the Poker Palace and its lawyers in this case.

While there was some pretrial maneuvering going on I was reluctant to issue a call for attendance as I was worried about another delay. But at this point there seems little chance of things not going forward on 11/9.

I was going to ask the PPA to send out an alert to nearby members next week (and still will). And I am glad to see the Poker Palace reaching out to its contacts too. It can never hurt to show that there is community support.

The only witnesses expected to testify on 11/9 are Greg Raymer and Professor Hannum. There was talk of other witnesses but it seems the Judge would like to keep things short and straightforward and there is little reason to fight him on that - Raymer and Hannum can present all the evidence we need to present. Both should present compelling testimony.

I am currently working on trying to attend myself. I encourage all others who can make the time to attend to do so.

Skallagrim
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Old 10-30-2011, 02:49 AM   #5
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Re: Va. Poker Players Unite for the Cause (Poker Palace)

So if we win this would poker rooms be definitively legal across the state, or just in Portsmouth, or is this just the beginning? Glad to that this case is finally going to court. Unfortunately I'm to far away and cant make it.
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:21 PM   #6
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Re: Va. Poker Players Unite for the Cause (Poker Palace)

I live in the West Coast and worked 7 days a week doubt that I can come and support....
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:17 PM   #7
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I am on my way and will be attending the trial tommorrow. I hope anyone who can show up will. I will post updates as able on twitter.

Skallagrim
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:00 AM   #8
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Re: Va. Poker Players Unite for the Cause (Poker Palace)

I'll be there. Hope we have a good turnout. Is there a pic of skall around here so I know who he is?
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Old 12-14-2011, 03:13 PM   #9
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Re: Va. Poker Players Unite for the Cause (Poker Palace)

Any update?
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Old 12-14-2011, 03:31 PM   #10
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Re: Va. Poker Players Unite for the Cause (Poker Palace)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sba9630 View Post
@FossilMan
Greg Raymer
Testified today as expert witness. Poker palace case in Portsmouth VA. In a word, judge shadricks decision was "lol-horribad".

Judge admitted poker was skill game in long run, but still a game of chance because outcome of each individual hand unpredictable.

Judge, golf is skill game right? So who is going to win the next Masters? Uncertain? lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
Yep, Greg sums it up about right. Close to an exact quote is "Poker is a game of skill and chance [like duh]. More skilled poker players win more over time. But there is chance in any single hand and the outcome of any single hand is uncertain, so it [violates the VA statute in question]."

IOW, this judge did not even feel he needed to rule whether skill or chance was more important. If there is any chance and you don't know the outcome in advance, that is enough for him.

So Bridge tournaments are illegal in VA too I guess, as is any game that has an element of chance and where the winner is not predetermined prior to playing ....

Skallagrim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
A post trial Motion to reconsider and change the result has been filed in the Daniels case. I will be posting a copy of it soon over at the PPA site.

It is hoped the judge will see that he made some pretty clear errors in interpreting VA law on this subject. If he does, we may still win this case.

If he does not, an appeal is anticipated.

Skallagirm
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