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Fight for Poker Rights (PPA) Discussions on actions the Poker Players Alliance and individual poker players are taking to advocate for poker rights at the local, state, and federal levels.

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Old 10-16-2008, 06:29 PM   #751
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

There's specific language in the law of those 11 states that ban poker.

Last edited by LetsGambool; 10-16-2008 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Changed comments as I was unable to verify a fact
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:30 PM   #752
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

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Originally Posted by LetsGambool View Post
There's specific language in the law of those 11 states that ban skill games. Duplicate Poker, before it folded, didnt offer games in those states and it was US based. This ruling is not based on that language, therefore all 50 states are potentially in jeopardy.
but this ruling doesn't have jurisdiction in 49 states?
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:34 PM   #753
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

This ruling doesnt do anything in the other 49 states by itself, no.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:34 PM   #754
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

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Originally Posted by mdm13 View Post
then how come those sites i mentioned have been accepting 39 states or whatever it is without an issue?
It's because the 11 or so remaining states have laws that pertain specifically to Internet poker, and because the remaining states (of which KY was one until now) haven't yet made an issue of it.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:41 PM   #755
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

We're not even close to done. There are many appeals to be filed, and there is plenty of political pressure to be applied to Beshear.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:44 PM   #756
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

New alert to KY PPA members:

Dear XX,

Thank you for contacting Governor Beshear earlier to tell him to respect your liberties and to abandon his plan to seize Internet poker websites’ domain names. Beshear's office has been getting flooded with phone calls and letters. I'm proud of the poker players of the Commonwealth for taking a strong stand.

Unfortunately, the judge in the Beshear Prohibition case ruled against us today. However, this is just the first round. Be assured that your PPA will continue fighting this through appeals and in other venues.

I believe the judge got this one wrong, and I strongly disagree with the ruling that poker is not a game of skill. It is. PPA filed a brief in the case proving that skill plays an essential role in being a successful poker player. Additionally, I believe that by confirming Beshear’s actions, the court set a dangerous precedent for censorship of the Internet. The ruling is a huge step backward for both personal rights and Internet freedom. In essence, Beshear is denying law-abiding citizens this form of recreation simply because it is enjoyed on the Internet. This is Internet censorship by judicial fiat, plain and simple.

I find Beshear’s expansion of Kentucky gaming law to include poker to be an outrage. Other states have had low-stake home poker games raided by SWAT teams, and I am very concerned that this expansion will affect Kentucky home games.

We need to stand up for our rights, and we need to do it now!

What Can I Do?

Please click the button below to send all-new, pre-written (but fully editable) letters of support for your rights. It takes just 60 seconds! And, please don't forget to ask all eligible voters in your household to send letters of their own as well. Let’s all make sure Beshear and the entire General Assembly know we demand our rights!

<link to letter to be in alert>

After you send the letters, please call your State Representative at (xxx)xxx-xxxx, your State Senator at (xxx)xxx-xxxx, and Gov. Beshear at (502) 564-2611 to tell them all:
  • You’re a voter, not a victim
  • You oppose the Beshear Prohibition
  • Beshear should support the regulation and licensing of online poker
  • Beshear should not expect poker players to support any future casino legalization bills that don't treat online poker fairly and equally.
Your opinion matters. Your calls and letters matter.

Please forward this email to your fellow Kentucky poker players and let's all tell Gov. Beshear: "I’m a voter, not a victim!"

Proud to play,
Rich Muny
PPA Kentucky State Director
ky@pokerplayersalliance.org
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:46 PM   #757
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

New member letter to State Senators and State Reps:

As a voter, poker player, and proud Kentuckian, I am outraged by Governor Beshear’s actions to seize the domain names of online poker sites. It’s an embarrassment to the Commonwealth and an infringement on my rights. I am writing to ask for your help.

Specifically, I ask that you oppose all future casino legalization bills that do not specifically allow online poker within the Commonwealth. I also ask that you oppose all casino legalization bills that do not include language that clarifies poker’s status as a game of skill – and not a form of “gambling” as defined under Kentucky law.

Beshear made it clear that he sees the Commonwealth’s poker players solely as a revenue source. In fact, in his protectionist quest to stop online poker, he actually accused my fellow poker players and me of “stealing” from the horse industry by not spending that money at the track! Well, I am not a revenue source. I’m a voter with rights.

While attacking my right to play online poker in my own home with my own money, Beshear actively worked to expand state case law to define all poker (not just online) as “gambling” under Kentucky law. I find this action to be outrageous. Other states have had low-stake home poker games raided by SWAT teams, and I am very concerned that Beshear’s actions will bring this to the Commonwealth – especially as Beshear says I’m a mere revenue source.

What's most important to me is your support for my rights. Please respond to this letter and let me know that you will support my freedoms. I will continue to watch your actions on this issue closely. I hope that I, along with my over 16,000 fellow Kentucky Poker Players Alliance members (and over one million Poker Players Alliance members nationwide), can count on your support.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:57 PM   #758
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

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It's because the 11 or so remaining states have laws that pertain specifically to Internet poker, and because the remaining states (of which KY was one until now) haven't yet made an issue of it.
I understand what you are saying here but why would this avenue incite other states do take the route that KY took when they didn't take the route the 11 states previously took? Why would this avenue be any different?

Just my two cents; I think any letters the PPA puts out regarding this issue need to highlight the consequences this ruling has outside poker. That is the issue that is going to bring this to a head. Most people will see today's ruling as, "So what. Degen poker players will no longer be able to play. It's illegal anyway." They won't understand how this effects literally everyone and every website. The ruling today can energize a lot of non-poker entities and non-poker playing people to take up our cause. This, in my opinion, has the potential to be a landmark case regarding the internet and it needs to be presented as such. I also wouldn't waste a lot of time on the "Poker is a game of skill" angle because it is clear that the majority of lawmakers/judges have absolutely no conception of this and totally disregard it.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:04 PM   #759
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

Let's say the poker sites did semi-cave. What would stop them from just redirecting KY traffic to their .Net extension?

I know the intent is to block KY residents from playing poker online, but all they really have to do is block KY residents from accessing the .com extensions to be in compliance right?

The whole .Net loophole has worked out very well for poker sites to continue advertising on TV.

I would rather this not happen of course, and see the poker sites say enough is enough and fight this garbage.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:05 PM   #760
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

Passing a law is a much, much more difficult process. There's a finite number of things a legislature can do in a year and a number of ways a bill can get derailed. Filing a court order is relatively easy and gives those who have interests counter to ours an relatively easy avenue to fight us. If sites comply with this I would hazard you wouldnt even need to go through this process in each state, a letter from the state Justice department ought to do it. Politicians may not be willing to spend capital passing a law banning online poker for their track or FOF associated buddies, but may be willing to file a court order.

It also gives states a remedy they haven't had in the past as taking the domain name does tangibly harm the business. The Washington law, for example, hasnt really had an adverse affect to date because no one is enforcing it. This is (potentially) a real enforcement action
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:06 PM   #761
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

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Originally Posted by coachkf View Post
Let's say the poker sites did semi-cave. What would stop them from just redirecting KY traffic to their .Net extension?

I know the intent is to block KY residents from playing poker online, but all they really have to do is block KY residents from accessing the .com extensions to be in compliance right?

The whole .Net loophole has worked out very well for poker sites to continue advertising on TV.

I would rather this not happen of course, and see the poker sites say enough is enough and fight this garbage.
This is why I asked about whether the .net domain was being seized earlier in the thread. That seems like a pretty big loophole if you could just link to another site, although Kentucky could just refile and take that site I suppose.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:09 PM   #762
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

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Originally Posted by ncboiler View Post
I understand what you are saying here but why would this avenue incite other states do take the route that KY took when they didn't take the route the 11 states previously took? Why would this avenue be any different?
It's different because it doesn't have to go through a state legislature and get passed into law. Rather, it just took one judge.

Not all states wish to pass such laws. If they did, I imagine they'd all have laws against online poker.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:09 PM   #763
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

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Originally Posted by ncboiler View Post
I also wouldn't waste a lot of time on the "Poker is a game of skill" angle because it is clear that the majority of lawmakers/judges have absolutely no conception of this and totally disregard it.
I agree fully with your thoughts that the internet freedom/censorship issue needs to be emphasized, both in letters from PPA members and their dealings with the press, etc.

However the poker is a skill game argument is critical IMO. That needs to be out there and repeated ad nasium. People who currently view poker players as just another subset of dengen gambler have to hear it isn't so until they at least open themselves to the possibility that they are wrong. The skill argument is, IMO, the only feasible way to prevail in some areas (states). Not winning that argument in the long run will be the downfall of online poker in the US.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:11 PM   #764
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

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Let's say the poker sites did semi-cave.
Sites that cave have to sign an agreement with the state of KY to block services.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:13 PM   #765
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Re: State of KY trying to seize online domain names...

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but this ruling doesn't have jurisdiction in 49 states?
The danger in this law is that it provides an easy blueprint to knock poker out of ALL states, WITHOUT additional legislation.

Also, Skallagrim, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the Governor of Kentucky did this as a civil suit, as a class action with a private attorney.

Does this then mean that any yahoo, in any state could initiate this same class action suit based on their state laws and ask for a civil seizure? Meaning that FoF could initiate the action themselves, and we would now have to fear every right wing group, not just right wing politicians, initiating this action?
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