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Fight for Poker Rights (PPA) Discussions on actions the Poker Players Alliance and individual poker players are taking to advocate for poker rights at the local, state, and federal levels.

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Old 05-10-2011, 03:53 PM   #1
journeyman
 
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The PPA should not fight for licensing

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Originally Posted by PPAdc View Post
PPA Press Release from today re: Fly In

Poker Players Alliance to Host Member Fly In Goal to Highlight the Need for Licensed and Regulated Online Poker
Great... just what we need... more licenses and regulation from the government.

Why should free people in a nation that is called the "freest nation on Earth" have the right to play poker without a license?

A license is granted for privileges. The PPA apparently holds the position that I do not have a right to play poker, but they do think I should be given the privilege to play if I agree to the rules the government requires of me. I can only surmise that the PPA holds the position that I am not capable of making my own decisions and that government regulation is needed by people that can save me from myself. What a wonderful service the PPA is providing by helping the government tax more money from me so they can fund yet another war.

Let the regulations begin! I am sure they will protect poker players as well as the SEC protected investors from Bernie Madoff's multi-billion dollar fraud.

Thank you Poker Players Alliance for Highlighting the need for Licensed and Regulated Online Poker. Where would we be without you Standing Up for Our Game?

Fight for Poker Rights not Privileges!
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:11 PM   #2
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
A license is granted for privileges. The PPA apparently holds the position that I do not have a right to play poker, but they do think I should be given the privilege to play if I agree to the rules the government requires of me. I can only surmise that the PPA holds the position that I am not capable of making my own decisions and that government regulation is needed by people that can save me from myself. What a wonderful service the PPA is providing by helping the government tax more money from me so they can fund yet another war.
It's not PPA's position. It's the government's position, and it's one upon which they are acting.

Just because we wish government would not exercise power over this does not make it so, unfortunately.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:34 PM   #3
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
It's not PPA's position. It's the government's position, and it's one upon which they are acting.

Just because we wish government would not exercise power over this does not make it so, unfortunately.
Quote:
Mission Statement
The Poker Players Alliance (PPA) is a non-profit membership organization comprised of online and offline poker players. Our membership consists of enthusiasts from around the United States who have joined together to speak with one voice to promote the game and protect the right to play poker in all its forms.

The PPA’s mission is to establish favorable laws that provide poker players with a secure, safe and regulated place to play. Through education and awareness the PPA will keep this game of skill, one of America’s oldest recreational activities, free from egregious government intervention and misguided laws.
http://theppa.org/about/
I have a feeling the PPA will help Congress craft regulations to intervene in my playing of poker and will bless the new misguided laws. Maybe I am wrong, but time will tell. I would rather see the PPA work to preserve our right to play free from egregious government intervention and misguided laws, rather than participate in this shakedown. The government's actions are based solely on adding revenue for politicians to spend. I sure hope the PPA does not help them get that revenue.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:42 PM   #4
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
I have a feeling the PPA will help Congress craft regulations to intervene in my playing of poker and will bless the new misguided laws. Maybe I am wrong, but time will tell.
Yes, of course we will if we get the chance. That's what we're fighting for.

Also, your ability to play poker will continue to be attacked by the DoJ and the federal government. Surely you're not expecting even the current situation to last, are you?

Quote:
I would rather see the PPA work to preserve our right to play free from egregious government intervention and misguided laws, rather than participate in this shakedown.
I see no way to convince Congress to allow online poker in an unfettered manner.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:16 PM   #5
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
Great... just what we need... more licenses and regulation from the government.

Why should free people in a nation that is called the "freest nation on Earth" have the right to play poker without a license?

A license is granted for privileges. The PPA apparently holds the position that I do not have a right to play poker, but they do think I should be given the privilege to play if I agree to the rules the government requires of me. I can only surmise that the PPA holds the position that I am not capable of making my own decisions and that government regulation is needed by people that can save me from myself. What a wonderful service the PPA is providing by helping the government tax more money from me so they can fund yet another war.

Let the regulations begin! I am sure they will protect poker players as well as the SEC protected investors from Bernie Madoff's multi-billion dollar fraud.

Thank you Poker Players Alliance for Highlighting the need for Licensed and Regulated Online Poker. Where would we be without you Standing Up for Our Game?

Fight for Poker Rights not Privileges!
Since when is online poker a right? The Bill of Rights protects freedom of religion, freedom of speech, a free press, free assembly and the right to keep and bear arms. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution confers the authority to regulate foreign and interstate commerce to Congress. Online poker is a matter of commerce, not a natural right per the laws of the our land.

I am all for protecting the "rights" of poker players. But it is a stretch to say that regulation of poker by government is an abridgement of our rights as citizens. Federal prohibition does go a step beyond regulation, infringing somewhat on our rights to free speech and assembly (the Wire Wager Act, meant to protect the sports industry from organized crime, did not envision or encompass the Internet).

Regulation and taxation of poker by government is likely inevitable. It is a mistake to marginalize our influence over the terms of government regulation by taking a stance against all such regulation rather than lobbying for terms acceptable and beneficial to players. If the PPA does not stand as representative of players' interests from within the law-making process, who will influence the process to encompass players' interests?

In other words, government will regulate (or prohibit) online poker, with or without us. I'd rather it be with us, so that we can add our 2-cents to the process.
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:50 PM   #6
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by PokerXanadu View Post
Since when is online poker a right? The Bill of Rights protects freedom of religion, freedom of speech, a free press, free assembly and the right to keep and bear arms. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution confers the authority to regulate foreign and interstate commerce to Congress. Online poker is a matter of commerce, not a natural right per the laws of the our land.

I am all for protecting the "rights" of poker players. But it is a stretch to say that regulation of poker by government is an abridgement of our rights as citizens. Federal prohibition does go a step beyond regulation, infringing somewhat on our rights to free speech and assembly (the Wire Wager Act, meant to protect the sports industry from organized crime, did not envision or encompass the Internet).

Regulation and taxation of poker by government is likely inevitable. It is a mistake to marginalize our influence over the terms of government regulation by taking a stance against all such regulation rather than lobbying for terms acceptable and beneficial to players. If the PPA does not stand as representative of players' interests from within the law-making process, who will influence the process to encompass players' interests?

In other words, government will regulate (or prohibit) online poker, with or without us. I'd rather it be with us, so that we can add our 2-cents to the process.
I was born with a right to play poker. The Constitution does not list all rights that we are born with, just the ones the founders thought were most important to write down so that people after them would not attempt to infringe upon those rights.

I disagree that poker is commerce.

Quote:
Constitution for the United States of America
Article. I.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power...

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Poker certainly is not commerce with between the U.S. and foreign Nations or commerce among the states. Poker is a game played between individuals.

You contradict youself when you say:
Quote:
...it is a stretch to say that regulation of poker by government is an abridgement of our rights as citizens.

...regulation, infringing somewhat on our rights
I agree with you that the Federal Government is infringing somewhat on our rights.

Regulation and taxation of poker by government may very well be inevitable, but that is because we either are not fighting the proper fight or our government is not actually of the people, by the people or for the people. The government probably will regulate (or prohibit) online poker, with or without us, which tells you that we are not governing ourselves... we are being dictated to.
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:54 PM   #7
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
Yes, of course we will if we get the chance. That's what we're fighting for.

Also, your ability to play poker will continue to be attacked by the DoJ and the federal government. Surely you're not expecting even the current situation to last, are you?



I see no way to convince Congress to allow online poker in an unfettered manner.
Thanks for being honest and admitting that the PPA will help Congress craft regulations to intervene in my playing of poker and will bless the new misguided laws.
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:06 PM   #8
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Thanks for being honest and admitting that the PPA will help Congress craft regulations to intervene in my playing of poker and will bless the new misguided laws.
No problem.
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:12 PM   #9
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
I disagree that poker is commerce.
Poker is commerce at its core. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce for the definition of commerce.

Quote:
Poker certainly is not commerce with between the U.S. and foreign Nations or commerce among the states. Poker is a game played between individuals.
The right to regulate interstate commerce is an enumerated power, as PX points out.

Quote:
Regulation and taxation of poker by government may very well be inevitable, but that is because we either are not fighting the proper fight or our government is not actually of the people, by the people or for the people. The government probably will regulate (or prohibit) online poker, with or without us, which tells you that we are not governing ourselves... we are being dictated to.
I've noticed many libertarians think most people agree with them and that only sheeple do not. The unfortunate reality is that many do not agree that we should have the right to play. As Sun Tzu said, "know your enemy." We can't win if we don't understand the battlefield.
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:16 PM   #10
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
No problem.
I only wish that the PPA had the guts to stand up for the rights of poker players and tell Congress to back off instead of helping grow the bloated government even more. Just what we need, another Department of... Internet Poker or some stupid crap. More useless government workers to employ that will provide no useful service to the nation, but will certainly add to our long term national debt. Hooray big government!
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:19 PM   #11
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
I only wish that the PPA had the guts to stand up for the rights of poker players and tell Congress to back off instead of helping grow the bloated government even more. Just what we need, another Department of... Internet Poker or some stupid crap. More useless government workers to employ that will provide no useful service to the nation, but will certainly add to our long term national debt. Hooray big government!
So, you want us to go to poker players and promise to fight a doomed fight on general principle? That should go over well.

Sorry, but my general principle is standing up to those who seek to ban the game. I'm proud that we're doing just that.
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:21 PM   #12
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

Also, it doesn't take any guts to fight something that is doomed from the start. People do it all the time. They fail and then pat themselves on the back for their failed effort. Sorry, but what takes guts is fighting for victory. For that, one has to dig down and actually engage a real fight.
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:30 PM   #13
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
So, you want us to go to poker players and promise to fight a doomed fight on general principle? That should go over well.

Sorry, but my general principle is standing up to those who seek to ban the game. I'm proud that we're doing just that.

Q. Who said this supid quote?
Quote:
"I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."
A. Bob Knight
B. The PPA
C. Thomas Jefferson
D. Random Idiot

The government is not interested in banning poker, they are interested in getting a piece of the pie. This is about generating revenue of the Federal Government and the PPA is not fighting against a ban but rather they are working to help the Federal Government gain that revenue. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:33 PM   #14
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Re: PPA To Host Washington Fly In May 24th

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
Also, it doesn't take any guts to fight something that is doomed from the start. People do it all the time. They fail and then pat themselves on the back for their failed effort. Sorry, but what takes guts is fighting for victory. For that, one has to dig down and actually engage a real fight.
Tell that to Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr and their doomed efforts.

Sounds like what you are saying is...
"I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:45 PM   #15
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Re: The PPA should not fight for licensing

Congress has voted on the idea of an unfettered online gaming market many times. Check out Federal online poker & gaming legislation history for more.
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