San Francisco Giants Baseball - 2012 World Champions

[Phildo]

aaron rowand plays cf and is really good at defense. not having a great bat when you can play center really well is not a huge problem. rowand's bat is fine for a cf. he's not grady sizemore but he's not corey patterson either. adam dunn plays corner even though he should be a dh and sucks huge **** at it. if he were going to an al team he might (MIGHT) be worth $10 mil a year going forward. not to an nl team. dunn displays nothing but old players skills and is likely to decline faster than rowand. they might be overpaying rowand by a mil or two a year. compared to the retarded contracts sabean has thrown around that is nothing.

rowand has been worth slightly more than dunn per year over the last five years and is not likely to experience the steep decline that dunn probably will in the next couple years. randy winn has been worth more than dunn over the last five years and makes less. fred lewis can actually play defense without embarrassing himself and is getting paid like 1/10th of what dunn is. there was no need to sign him. he might add half to a win to a win over lewis for over $9 million/year. **** that.

educate yourself.

[Phildo]

holy ****ing **** bochy better not ****ing send lincecum back out there with 109 pitches in a 5-1 ballgame after taking him out with 98 in a 0-0 game.

[Phildo]

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**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****

worst manager in baseball

he does not understand the game at all. bunt bunt bunt bunt bunt bunt bunt take out your pitcher that's cruising with a low pitch count for no reason in a close game bunt bunt bunt bunt leave the most valuable young pitcher in baseball in with well over 100 pitches in a game that's over bunt bunt bunt

[offTopic]

Concur. Also, odd that he's pitching from the stretch with no one on?

ETA: It's innings, not pitches, LDO.

[Poofler]

God that's ****ing criminal.

[Phildo]

i mean, seriously, how does he not understand that the 0-0 game is the one where it might be acceptable to run tim's pitch count up over 120? as big of a vagina as i am about pitch counts with 24 year olds, i seriously wouldn't have said **** if he had had tim pitch 123 in the 0-0 game and pulled him after 98 in this game. the fact that he can't understand this simple concept makes me weep for the future of this pitching staff. lincecum, cain, sanchez, bumgarner, alderson, ... well not zito. i hope he blows zito's arm the **** up.

[Poofler]

The problem is Zito goes and gets himself pulled well before 120 pitches a lot. Middle relief between starts plz.

[Phildo]

lol

if sanchez can avoid the horrendous luck that **** all over him last season and bumgarner and alderson progress as expected then i see zito as the most expensive swingman in baseball come 2011.

[Poofler]

Wow I retract my statement. Zito managed to be #21 in PAP last year despite being absolutely dog****.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/st...php?cid=204015

ps: don't look at the first line

[Phildo]

don't worry, i know all about bochy attempting to cripple timmy.

it's funny, zito could actually be a valuable 4th or 5th starter. too bad he's getting paid $126 million.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Originally Posted by Phildo

aaron rowand plays cf and is really good at defense. not having a great bat when you can play center really well is not a huge problem. rowand's bat is fine for a cf. he's not grady sizemore but he's not corey patterson either. adam dunn plays corner even though he should be a dh and sucks huge **** at it. if he were going to an al team he might (MIGHT) be worth $10 mil a year going forward. not to an nl team. dunn displays nothing but old players skills and is likely to decline faster than rowand. they might be overpaying rowand by a mil or two a year. compared to the retarded contracts sabean has thrown around that is nothing.

rowand has been worth slightly more than dunn per year over the last five years and is not likely to experience the steep decline that dunn probably will in the next couple years. randy winn has been worth more than dunn over the last five years and makes less. fred lewis can actually play defense without embarrassing himself and is getting paid like 1/10th of what dunn is. there was no need to sign him. he might add half to a win to a win over lewis for over $9 million/year. **** that.

educate yourself.

except that rowand is wildly overrated in defense.

[Phildo]

no he's actually pretty awesome at defense despite the fact that the morons on sportscenter like him for running into walls. click the second link i posted and scroll down to fielding. last season probably doesn't mean much because of sample size and all that. overall he has been very good at a difficult defensive position over his career.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

yeah i did look at that link and rowand's defense was not good last year. maybe it was a setback in an otherwise solid defensive career, or maybe its the sign of decline from a 31 year old centerfielder. rowand's uzr the past 3 years were 1.6, 10.3, and -6.5. which of the three seems out of place and which one is he more likely to duplicate this year? (not comparing him to andruw jones, but look at what happened to him at the same age)

PECOTA had rowand pegged for serious regression in 2008 and he did even worse than their projections and the Baseball Prospectus player description does not have nice things to say.

[Phildo]

well sure pecota had him in for a serious regression in 2008. he hit out of his mind in 2007. to expect him to repeat that would be foolish. if he always played like he did in 2007 he would be worth more than twice what he is getting paid.

i think you are reading too much into a stat (uzr) that while valuable, is not really useful in small sample sizes, which includes a season or two. he has been worth almost one win per 150 games on defense as far as uzr goes back. if he were 34 or something i would worry that the last few years were a trend. but he is not at an age where he one would expect a steep decline in defense for a player with his skills. and his contract with the giants will end before it should be a big problem.

one problem with pecota is that it does not do a very good job of taking defense into account. and pecota has him as an almost two win player this season. since he can be expected to be worth almost another win on defense over the average cf, i would say that his contract is not terrible.

edit: i subscribe to bp and i like them and all but a four sentence blurb that focuses on his offense and the future prospects of the giants (who gives a ****? they aren't paying him $126 million last time i checked. plus they have a great farm right now and the nl west is loltastic) while glossing over his sick d and the fact that he is not a player that should significantly decline in his age 30-34 seasons can suck my dick imo

[offTopic]

Whew. Things should be back to normal now for Matt Cain. It was starting to look all wonky there for a while.

LOL @ Mychael Urban on KNBR weekends, "Cain has pitched pretty well the last couple of years, but eventually he's going to have to step up and start winning games." Yeah, today is supposed to somehow reflect badly on him?