New England Patriots: Longest Drought in Beantown - Page 76 - Single-Team Season Threads -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Jbrochu · 01-22-2011, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey OT

yeah, the thread title is incredible. if that was your own creation jbrochu, outstanding work.

It came to me during a bad dream.

Toro · 01-23-2011, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDoranD

Our ST is more than just good FG kicking and "just" Tates 2 KR for TDs. Edelman returned a punt for a TD and had several other long punt returns, not to mention 2 other ST TDs off FG and and punt blocks, and didnt give up a single blocked kick/punt or return for TD. Obviously there isnt perfect info to go off of for STs but we made a ton of big plays this year on STs and didnt give up hardly any big plays.

My point isnt that our special teams is bad just that I thought the Jets had the edge. I googled to see if there were any rankings and this came up where the Jets are 5th and we're 8th fwiw.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst

Jbrochu · 01-23-2011, 10:27 AM

Pats really missed all those kickoff touchbacks after Gostkowski went on IR.

Goodie · 01-23-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toro

Are the Patriots really a better "team" than the Jets. Hard to argue they are not after beating them 45-3 earlier. But break it down using these categories: Offensive line (edge Jets), running backs (edge Jets), WR (Jets), TE (Patriots), QB (Pats) defensive line (Jets), linebackers (edge Jets) and defensive backs(Jets).

Morph TE with WR and receivers are probably a wash, so the only advantage to the Pats (and its of course the most important position) is at QB. So the Jets come up with a game plan with 11 DB's on the active roster and as many as 7 in the game at the same time to take away Brady and we get beat at every other matchup.

Forgot Special Teams, edge to jets there too.

Two things:

You didn't mention coaching where I think a significant edge still goes to the Pats, even though I do think Rex is a good coach.

Some of these categories are not close and are extremely important, namely QB. And that category alone affects hugely the most important stat when looking at wins and losses which is turnovers.

I think if you take those two things into account, the Pats are still the favorites to win the division again next year but it's certainly still somewhat close.

Toro · 01-24-2011, 07:58 AM

Going forward I have no worries Goodie, it was this year I was referring to.

Goodie · 01-24-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toro

Going forward I have no worries Goodie, it was this year I was referring to.

Actually, the gap in QB's is probably going to get smaller in the coming years. This year, it was extremely apparent. The gap in coaching will likely be there as long as Belichick and Ryan are the head coaches.

Toro · 01-24-2011, 11:37 AM

I wouldn't be hanging my hat on our alleged big edge in coaching when BB got so clearly out coached in the last game.

Donkey OT · 01-24-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toro

Those are definitely debateable. But Greene/LT combined for 1680 yds where lawfirm/woody combined for 1555. Special teams is more than a FG kicker. After two long TD runs early in the year Tate didn't impress me and our coverage was bad at times.

the jets also ran the ball a ton more than the pats. bulk yards are just so awful. not to mention the pats had a tougher schedule against the run. and running backs are fairly interchangeable with few exceptions, so even if LT/Greene > greenellis/woody, it's not that big of a deal.

But I disagree on the OL thing for sure. The Pats OL, especially with Mankins playing a full season, is as good as any.

And finally, you say QB edge goes to pats, whereas every single other component you give an edge to the jets. that says to me jets o >>>> pats o, which is clearly not the case. just compare pass o and rush o and whatever. stop breaking down things that are nearly impossible to compare.

pats o >>>>> jets o
jets d >>>> pats d
pats st > jets st

Toro · 01-24-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey OT

the jets also ran the ball a ton more than the pats. bulk yards are just so awful. not to mention the pats had a tougher schedule against the run. and running backs are fairly interchangeable with few exceptions, so even if LT/Greene > greenellis/woody, it's not that big of a deal.

But I disagree on the OL thing for sure. The Pats OL, especially with Mankins playing a full season, is as good as any.

And finally, you say QB edge goes to pats, whereas every single other component you give an edge to the jets. that says to me jets o >>>> pats o, which is clearly not the case. just compare pass o and rush o and whatever. stop breaking down things that are nearly impossible to compare.

pats o >>>>> jets o
jets d >>>> pats d
pats st > jets st

yes sir, whatever you say sir.

Goodie · 01-24-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toro

I wouldn't be hanging my hat on our alleged big edge in coaching when BB got so clearly out coached in the last game.

Lets just compare seasons. The Jets ran hot in the playoffs and made a deeper run than the Pats but did ANYONE in the entire world think the Pats would be 14-2 this year? That was an epic coaching job that BB did this year. And I don't think that the Jets, with their talent, out performed expectations by much and I think they underperformed in the regular season. A couple of things don't go their way and they actually could have very easily not even made the playoffs.

One game doesn't mean a heck of a lot. The advantage in coaching is still pretty clearly with BB.

Kneel B4 Zod · 01-24-2011, 12:17 PM

Pats won 3/4 FG's with a combined PD of +6, just gotta take the good with the bad.

I take solace in the fact that we'll open as the fav to win the next SB and should be a great team next year

this team needs very little

shipontilt · 01-24-2011, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey OT

But I disagree on the OL thing for sure. The Pats OL, especially with Mankins playing a full season, is as good as any.

Really? part of the reason why they went 1 and done this year is because the oline couldn't block even the lol jets pass rush. Made 33 year old Shaun Ellis look like Bruce Smith in his prime.

Jbrochu · 01-24-2011, 10:01 PM

I don't think the o-line played particularly well, but many of those sacks were coverage sacks.

shipontilt · 01-24-2011, 11:15 PM

2 out of the 5, yes were coverage sacks.

Donkey OT · 01-25-2011, 07:48 AM

6th in adjusted sack rate. i'm aware that a lot of that may have to do with brady's awareness and whatnot, but i think it's as likely that the jets defense just had a monster game, and if not, then maybe the pats ol had a bad game. whatever. but i'm not going to put too much stock in one game. also, the jets had 40 sacks this year. it's not like they had zero rush all year.