Minnesota Vikings - MVPETERSON! - Page 31 - Single-Team Season Threads -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

cha59 · 08-08-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillNye

Agree w/ everything except Greenway is overrated, too poor in coverage to be a Pro Bowl caliber player.

As somebody who was very, very against drafting Harvin over Oher I am officially excited about Harvin. Every report from training camp is that he's been catching the ball well and burning our CBs for long TDs. The days I was there he was being utilized often, getting end arounds, motioned to the backfield, kick / punt returns, QB'ing the wildcat formation. Now put him on one side and Berrian on the other and send them both deep. If the defense is putting the SS in the box it's gonna mean one of these guys is gonna have 1 on 1.

Also sounds like Sage is gonna win this competition by default. TJack's mcl sprain combined w/ apparently looking poor when trying to rush back is really gonna cost him. Also he shouldn't win in the first place as his deep ball is the worst I've ever seen at the professional level.

Agree with almost all this. I think Greenway is decent in coverage though.

I wanted the best OT available on draft day with the Harvin pick, but I'm getting excited to see him in real games now.

You are saying TJ is the worst pro deep ball passer ever, not Sage, correct? If so, I couldn't agree more. If Sage is bad at the deep pass, I think we have little hope.

willie24 · 08-08-2009, 09:00 PM

brad johnson had a pretty horrible deep ball, but the worst i can remember seeing was shaun king. anyway, while TJ is probably bad we don't need to exaggerate - his arm strength alone means he's not close to the worst of alltime.

can we all agree that randall cunningham threw the greatest deep ball ever?

SL__72 · 08-09-2009, 12:11 AM

From Twitter:

DarrenWolfson: Wade on timing with T-Jack: "Knowing he'll be pretty much the named starter going into the season so timing is everything in this offense"

cha59 · 08-09-2009, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willie24

brad johnson had a pretty horrible deep ball, but the worst i can remember seeing was shaun king. anyway, while TJ is probably bad we don't need to exaggerate - his arm strength alone means he's not close to the worst of alltime.

can we all agree that randall cunningham threw the greatest deep ball ever?

Johnson had a weak arm, but he was much less inaccurate than TJ. No comment on King. Bobby Douglass had great arm strength too. I dont know if anyone here is old enough to remember how bad he was, but I'd put TJ a notch below him.

Cunningham was great at the deep ball, especially in 98. I dont know if Ive ever seen a QB have a better season throwing so many deep completions. That being said, I think a lot of his success that year had to do with having two hall of fame receivers. Marino, Fouts, Young are some other great deep passers that come to mind. As far as Viking history, Cunningham & Jeff George are at the top of that list, although neither did it for a long time. Culpepper was pretty accurate deep too.

cha59 · 08-09-2009, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SL__72

From Twitter:

DarrenWolfson: Wade on timing with T-Jack: "Knowing he'll be pretty much the named starter going into the season so timing is everything in this offense"

wtf

willie24 · 08-09-2009, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cha59

Cunningham was great at the deep ball, especially in 98. I dont know if Ive ever seen a QB have a better season throwing so many deep completions. That being said, I think a lot of his success that year had to do with having two hall of fame receivers. Marino, Fouts, Young are some other great deep passers that come to mind. As far as Viking history, Cunningham & Jeff George are at the top of that list, although neither did it for a long time. Culpepper was pretty accurate deep too.

culpepper was very accurate and had a very strong arm, but he only threw bullets. george was kind of similar. cunningham had that huge catapult windup and threw perfect spiral bombs with the trajectory of an 8 iron, which was ideal for moss.

another viking who had great touch was warren moon. i don't recall him throwing a lot of bombs, but he threw a hell of a goalline fade route.

SL__72 · 08-09-2009, 10:42 AM

You guys are getting a little carried away. Jackson is no Brees, but he isn't a Byron Leftwich either. Imo he has above average accuracy on medium-long passes (like 25-30 yarders) and while mediocre at throwing the ball up for receivers to run under, he isn't totally hopeless either.

cha59 · 08-10-2009, 04:18 PM

Wade clarifies previous previous statement about starting QB

SL__72 · 08-10-2009, 05:41 PM

You mean "Wade backtracks"

cha59 · 08-10-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SL__72

You mean "Wade backtracks"

Yeah, or that, lol. The initial quote they had from him didnt sound right.

**Pudge714** · 08-10-2009, 07:52 PM

Agree with SL_72 about Tjax's deep ball. He has a strong enough arm that it has to be better than a lot of QBs.

BillNye · 08-11-2009, 12:00 PM

Tjacks deepball sucks cuz his regular release point is pretty low, he has a good bullet but he doesn't get much air underneath it. Now obviously that doesn't work when he has to throw the ball 40yds so he super over compensates and just launches it too high and makes the WR try to get underneath it, rarely hitting the WR in stride. It sucks really, I can think of a few good deep balls he's thrown, Williamson @chi 07, Williamson@den 07, Berrian@ari08, Wade@ari08 but I really think thats close to it.

cha59 · 08-11-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillNye

Tjacks deepball sucks cuz his regular release point is pretty low, he has a good bullet but he doesn't get much air underneath it. Now obviously that doesn't work when he has to throw the ball 40yds so he super over compensates and just launches it too high and makes the WR try to get underneath it, rarely hitting the WR in stride. It sucks really, I can think of a few good deep balls he's thrown, Williamson @chi 07, Williamson@den 07, Berrian@ari08, Wade@ari08 but I really think thats close to it.

This makes sense. When he launches a deep ball, its rarely even close to the receiver. For a guy who has a strong arm, TJ is definitely one of the worst deep ball throwers ever.

Again, he's similar to Bobby Douglass - who could launch it ~110 yards, but was rarely getting it near the receivers.

His coach said, "(Bobby) could throw the ball through a barn door... if he could hit a barn door." <-- entertaining Bobby Douglass highlight clip with lots of good comments.

Strong arm does not equate to anything resembling a good deep ball imo. Its one of the components, but in the case of TJ, it doesn't matter because he launches scud missiles.

SL__72 · 08-11-2009, 04:22 PM

I agree that strong arm != great at throwing floaters downfield. I also agree that TJack isn't awesome at it. But I think you guys are vastly underestimating the role of the receiver in those sorts of passes. I would go as far as to say the receiver plays a significantly larger role than the QB does in the completion rate on down field (> 40yd) passes at the NFL level (so, compared to NFL replacement level). And until his last four games of last season, Jackson had never played with a receiver who you would even consider competent at it, relative to other NFL receivers.

This "he's the worst ever" stuff is really rube-ish.

vikefan24 · 08-11-2009, 05:38 PM

Awesome vid to get you a little more hyped