It's amazing you haven't taken any flak for this especially after the way it went down & it was predicted. You're getting very defensive for somebody who is totally in the wrong. This situation should never have happened & you can make all the excuses you want but that's all they are, excuses. You let this happen.

If you think this is ridiculous, I should post this in NVG & see how stupid it gets.

If you still think you should be used as an escrow you're insane. You act like you deserve a medal for attempting to pay people that you owe money to.

In conclusion, you're still full of ****.

I have been a Wesrwood supporter, and I'm confident that he is going to make this right. I agree with you, this situation is regrettable and it isn't great for anyone involved. From the contact I've gotten and from what I read from Irving,Wesrwood is making regular payments.

I still think Wesrwood's leagues are well set up and well run. It is just taking him a little longer than we'd all like to get paid.
He is on the hook for a lot of money. However, he's made arrangements with all the people he owes that he will get the money as soon as he can. The people he owes money to seems fine with that, so why are you so mad about this?

I don't know what to tell you Precept2.

This guy was trying to set up multiple leagues with a potential to escrow $40K+ & when it was brought up that he had a checkered past (admittedly very small **** but showed a history of being less than totally honest) & he probably wasn't the best choice to escrow this kind of money he flew off the handle threatening to sue multiple people. This was long before it was even revealed that he didn't even have his own Paypal to escrow with which itself should have disqualified him from escrowing other people's money.

He later had to admit to some of the little **** that happened but blamed a bunch of the dishonesty(admittedly very small stuff but shows a pattern) on some unknown guy named Derrick or something like that. He's now blaming some unnamed person for misappropriating at least $3K from this league. This doesn't sound familiar to you?

He wanted props for running a good league & paying super fast last year & made sure everyone was aware of it when he was recruiting for this year but he shouldn't take any flak for this abortion which is totally of his making & was predicted? What are we supposed to do this year, give him props for being a stand up guy for paying $1K(so far) of a $3K debt which was also of his making?

Back in Sept nobody was allowed to question him because he escrowed & paid promptly without incident the year before even though he had some question marks in his past & still nobody can question anything when at least $3K was actually missing from the league escrow this year in very mysterious circumstances? I don't even care about the $6400 in gambling debts arising from the league because that has nothing to do with his duty & obligation to keep the league money safe. Remember he insisted on escrowing even when other options were presented & he let this happen even though he wants to play the victim card.

You can give him all the props you want(& he really seems to want to give himself props) for paying this debt down but I'll wait until it's totally paid to give any props for that. In the meantime everyone, including wesrwood, should admit that he should never have been escrowing other people's money in the first place if for no other reason than he didn't have actual control of the funds since the account wasn't his or enough personal funds to cover it. There's more reasons than that but it's a pretty big one.

Let's get serious, who joins(wants to run & escrow) multiple fantasy leagues with these kinds of buy-ins & doesn't have $3K of his own money to pay the winner & not need a payment plan? Seriously.

I get the impression he's trying to protect his reputation to escrow in the future by downplaying this incident which isn't gonna happen here if I can prevent it. We haven't heard any of the story let alone all of the story.

He can say he will only tell or has already told the whole story to those in the league(typical for someone trying to hide stuff) but he posted this on a public forum asking everybody to trust him & join & he owes it to everybody, whether they joined, considered joining, or just read it to address it publicly.

Dude you are just making things worse for yourself. Im trying to give you an opportunity to clear this up as much as possible, but you are really going to say that you cant take a screenshot, becasue "its not my PayPal account so I don't have access"?
Youre losing credibility by saying things like that. If you dont have access how did you get money into the account in the first place? How did you ever expct to pay people? When did you suddenly lose access?

I think you just dont want to post screen shots of the transaction history, or show us exactly when you lost control of the money, because you made poor gambling decisions with money that was not yours, and then had no way to pay it back when you were supposed to.

Can someone post a quick history of Wesrwoods known prop bets just as a start?

If what you told us is even remotely true, then give us the entire story. Provide evidence. Post screenshots. Nobody gives a sh** about you protecting your family members privacy, especially when you claim that very family member stole thousands of dollars from people on this board.

You might be going through a lot right now, but unfortunately nobody cares about your personal life, and it has absolutely zero bearing on the fact that one way or another, you lost a significant amount of peoples money.

You could have handled this a whole lot better than you are currently, starting with being honest and up front with the entire situation. Stop pretending to be honorable. Paying back debts and giving people THEIR OWN money is not honorable in any way. You screwed up, and screwed up in a pretty huge way. Just because you might be doing what should have been done along (if we are to believe your story in the first place), dos not mean you are honorable.

Wow, some other pretty crazy accusations were flying around in HSNL, starting with this post:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=156


and several other choice tidbits:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=157
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=164
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=168
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=179


and the grand finale:
http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sho...-2-2-users-now

Now that I've seen all this, my question is why the **** would/did anyone join his leagues ESPECIALLY when he is the escrow??


Precept2 - you've vouched for Wesrwood a lot in the fantasy forums, and I see you are also from CT. Do you know him in person, or have you ever met him?
Precept -

Can there be an undertitle for slow payers?

I don't want to join a fantasy league with someone who can't pay on time.

Yes. I know him and am friends with him. That's one of the reasons I'm still in this thread. I'm not going to say, "Cut him some slack" or "Ease up". He's been put in a tough spot and he's making it right. It's taking longer than anyone would prefer, but in the end, Irving and the others will be paid, then I'll be paid.

Wes has been in constant contact since the season ended. From what we've seen on this site in the past, people who don't pay out don't come back to this site. They go dark or delete their accounts. They hide from their "constituents." That's not what happened here.

Does Wesrwood deserve "credit" for paying out what was supposed to be paid out? No.

Does Wesrwood deserve a chance to make it right? Yes

Will Wesrwood ever be the commissioner of another league? Maybe (if so, he's not the escrow)

I think this about sums up the thread

Wesrwood - I'm not really buying these excuses. "It's not my PayPal account..... funds were misused". I doubt mean that as, "I don't believe you". I mean that as that "Um, what? If you're going to escrow a ton of money, you should probably just get your own PayPal or find some other way to hold funds where somebody else can't misuse the money" type of way.

NWP guys - I'm not really sure wesrwood has done enough (at least on 2p2) to justify you guys coming in here opening up 45 cans of worms. I'm not really going to dig around the link threads and find out if he actually claimed to be some Alaskan bodybuilder... or whatever. Sounds like you guys have nothing better to do and just want to cause trouble where it's not needed.

Did wesrwood handle this situation perfectly? Hell no. He's the escrow, he has no excuse NOT to pay out the winners in full in no time. I also don't understand his failure to payout his side bets. Why is this taking time? If you didn't have 6.5k (or whatever) "lying around" then you shouldn't have made side bets for that much.

Does wesrwood deserve the scammer tag? Probably not. He's been open about what happened and seems to have been communicating with the people he owes money too and is making timely payments. IMO these NWP guys are acting like he escrowed the leagues and just disappeared forever and ran off with the money.


I've played in one of wesrwood's league the last two years. Last year, I took 2nd and he paid me out very quickly. This year, he hasn't handled the situation perfectly, but I think the NWP guys are making it more than what it really is.

**

then where the hell did you come from? You has like 10 posts on this forum in 3 months, then come out of nowhere in this thread? That's random. I feel like there's a 1% chance that you don't have some past history with wesrwood.

tbh, I'm not super concerned about the specifics. The people he owes have said ITT that wes is making regular payments, so I don't really care to be a detective like you. IMO if he wants to escrow nex year, he should be prepared to explain wtf happened this year and what he has done to prevent it from happening in the future.

My opinion is that if he wants to escrow next year he is completely insane.
By all accounts here he he is pretty good at actually running leagues, but anyone who trusts him with money is crazy.

You'd be on wrong side of a bad beat then. I have absolutely no history with wesrwood that I'm aware of. ZERO.

As for your second paragraph, what's wrong with publicly documenting a bunch of this stuff while it's not only fresh in his mind but fresh in the minds of people in the leagues so they can compare notes according to what they know? If it's all true I see no harm.
He has a real penchant for conveniently forgetting things even things that most would consider fairly unforgettable. I asked & he couldn't even remember what month it was when he found out the money was missing & it only happened sometime in the last 5 months. I'm pretty positive I could tell you the exact month, day, time, & exactly where I was when I found out I was betrayed by someone I really trusted. Do you really think he's going to be able/willing to remember & come clean if he wants to escrow next year?
A lot of things just don't add up & you can just give him a pass but after the way he tried to defend himself last Aug/Sept when it was brought up & what happened here, he doesn't deserve a pass although, that's what he wants.
I've yet to say anything that's way out of line & have probably been a lot more respectful than he deserves but he's got you convinced this is some kind of witch hunt & anything being asked is unreasonable.

So let's see if I understand this.

1) You had ~10 post in 3 months on 2p2, ZERO in Fantasy Sports
2) wesrwood makes the post about the funds being misused, etc..
3) You just happen to stumble upon it and drill into him for no real reason

I feel like there's 2-3 threads per month about somebody scamming somebody else, and I've never seen you in them, but now (for whatever reason) you decide to speak up

seems legit

1. So, I don't post very often. It's not like I'm totally making this **** up.

2. & it would have never been seen by anybody because he buried it where he did. IMO that was a conscious decision & intentional. This is actually one of my biggest beefs, other than money entrusted to him going missing, & makes me question everything. This makes absolutely ZERO sense. None.

3. I was totally aware of this situation back in Aug/Sept from my posting on PFA so I didn't just stumble across it. Do you really consider what I'm doing "drilling him" him for no reason? Really??? No reason??? "Drilling him"??? This is pretty tame stuff.

You act like I'm just incessantly trolling him & asking totally inappropriate question & making wild unsubstantiated speculations like what happens in every second thread in NVG. He threatens lawsuits when anybody dared to question his integrity but when some real financial impropriety happens, you're telling me that he still can't/shouldn't be questioned about it?

You're asking more questions of me then the guy who's responsible for the misappropriation of $3K+(we don't even know how much) from a fantasy league & it could have been way worse if he escrowed the "big league" as he had planned. That's pretty sad.

Yes, I am legit. Not sure about him.

While I agree with NHG and CS3, it seems like Wers is trying to make it right so it's probably best for everyone involved to let this play out before we make any final judgements.

We understand documenting these types of situations for future seasons. That has been done already here.

If these types of threads are big beefs for you, how come we don't see you in the Wardrums thread? What about the tdomeski survivor pool thread?

How come you're making 'this thread' your cause?

Update: wesrwood has shipped two more payments over to me totalling another $500

Sent from my XT907 using 2+2 Forums

Thx for the update.

Lol. Yes. I saw you in Wardrums thread, but the only post you made in that thread was to say bad things about Wesrwood. So you really contribute anything to that thread pertaining to Wardrums himself. Just more Wesrwood crap.

I'd like to point out that I said absolutely nothing bad about wesrwood. I guess if quoting somebody word for word is considered saying bad things about them then I`m guilty.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...48/index2.html

As for my contribution, I feel it`s pertinent since Precept was in a thread about guys not getting paid for a league & vouching for another guy that also hasn`t paid his league & has admitted a misappropriation of the funds as the cause. Admittedly it`s not the greatest contribution but I thought everybody could use a laugh.

What should be troubling to everybody is cs3's reaction to my post. He thought I was lying about & doubted the quote, because I misspelled wesrwood, until you came & linked him to this thread & this thread would have been no more than 4 or 5 threads above it on the main page when he posted that. It was staring him in the face & he never saw it.

Just goes to show everybody how effective the technique of burying his admission on page 2 of an old, all positive, everyone got paid thread was. I`ll even venture to speculate that the vast majority of those in his league(s) are still not aware of this thread & probably the situation in general.

Anyway, wesrwood should be happy, this is most likely my last post on this subject unless the league participants show up. Even then, I`d be happy just to know that they are aware & some of them are asking questions.

Good luck with getting fully paid Irving.

Not Hockey Guy, honest question. Why do you care so much about this situation? Are you owed anything? Have you ever been involved in one of his leagues?

To be fair, you didn't just misspell his username. You completely botched it but more importantly you didnt provide links or any evidence whatsoever.

I ddnt necessarily think you were lying - I initially questioned you because (in this forum at least) he seemed to have a good rep as commish and I dont thikn its cool to throw stuff up without evidence.
Once the link was there and I was able to do a tiny bit of research it was obvious something was up, and it soon all came crashing down on him. As well it should have.

I still want to see the screenshots of his account history because I think it would shed a lot of light on this whole thing, but looks like Wesrwood has no intention of doing so.

Just to update everyone, wesrwood has sent over the final $1,500 and is now completely squared away with me.

Sent from my XT907 using 2+2 Forums

Congratulations on dodging a bullet & actually getting paid in full.

I am with NHG on this. This should be a much bigger deal then it seems to be. Wes' reactions in this thread is so hilariously bad that it gives off the feeling(imo) that he is lying.

A couple things:

1. Your whole Paypal situation should have disqualified you from even coming within earshot of anyone's money. YOU said YOU would escrow, not middleman the escrow, except now you are saying you dont even have access to the account. The fact that people didnt know about this is a scam. Whether you pay out on time or not.

The logistics behind this are another story. You can somehow get the person to confirm receipt and send payments, but you cant take screenshots. OK.

2. Personal attacks are one of the worst things to do in a situation like this. Ignoring the horrible way you are attempting to defend your own actions, attacking those trying to bring things to light is pretty hilarious.

3. You have said something along the lines of "This is why I hate escrowing", but it has become fairly apparent that you have went out of your way to escrow some leagues. This is suspicious.

4. "If you guys knew what happened you would back the **** off of me" This is hilarious. This is far from a normal situation, again, you used a paypal that you convinced other people you were escrowing with, that you werent. Noone is backing off for that, no matter if that money is now being used to cure ****ing cancer. You knowingly deceived people. You could very well have been in a situation where the money become a necessity for "whoever" took it.




Personally I think you took the money. You have access to the account, and you just thought you would be able to get the money back prior to the time you needed to pay it out. The use for the money is of no concern to other people. It is almost better for you if this is the case because then you didnt knowingly give access to thousands of dollars to someone that nobody agreed to. I think you assumed for cred, it would look better to simply deceive people into the specifics of the escrow then you mishandling the money personally.