actually since this looks like it won't get off the ground for another week or two I should hopefully be moved by then. so i'm down to co-own, though i might not be as available the first week.

Read some of it but a few things I have issues with right now..

OBP, SLG, HR, SB, R - Have one of SLG or HR, then add in avg for whichever you don't choose. No rbi's? wat?

Also just pay 3-4 teams, you don't see any 12 man sngs paying 6 people, lol

Who would be commissioner?

Also in 2010 the major league minimum is being bumped to 400k, so adjust the rookie min you had..

Correct.

TERCETTTTTTTT

Nice job so far. Here's some ideas i had reading it over the first time.

I like Net SB better than SB.

I like the auction format iamawesomer posted.

If they exceed the major league AB/IP limits but are in the minors then i think they should go in the regular auction. though, if no one bids on them/picks them up, then they should be able to be picked up as minor leaguers.

To clarify, minor league roster is just filled by draft spots and they have no salary until 25 man active roster?

also there's a yearly auction for players that get cut due to not wanting to pay 20% hike right? the rookie's whose rookie contract has run its course would be dumped in here too?

+1

+2.

Great job Karak; still taking it all in, but looks like a really good foundation. Very happy with the categories as is, even if SLG and HR have a decent amount of overlap. Not too worked up about the difference between SB and SB-CS. Agree with Pecota that more than 2 DL would make sense. Also, I like a flatter payout, but the flat payout looks a little TOO flat. Wouldn't want to see anyone finishing worse than 6th to be paid. Or not; nitpicking at this point.

soooooooooooo where do we go from here

I'm going to take all the suggestions and revise the constitution this weekend. Assuming all agree, the bidding starts next week. We still need to confirm who is going to escrow. Is THAY3r banned or something?

he posted last night?

Couple of requests:

- Make OPS a category, and add RBI's. OPS is OBP+SLG, so it would basically be combining those two categories, and OPS is widely regarded as one of the ultimate metrics for determining the best hitters in real life and in fantasy.

- I would support iamawesomers slow draft approach. It is really fun, and I think that the proposed format would be too problematic and confusing. As I understand it, we're basically bidding blind for all of these players. Having the kind of draft iamawesomer suggests allows everyone to make multiple bids on players and makes it more of a true auction. I would also prefer a live online auction on ESPN.

- I think ESPN or Yahoo would be the best sites for this because they are free. I would prefer for the $100+ we would be giving to CBS to be awarded in prize money instead. As for keeping track of minor leaguers, I would be willing to help the commisioner out. A master list can be maintained on either the ESPN/Yahoo league page or on the message board on which we conduct the draft.

what's your argument for adding rbis?

Yeah, I'm kinda back and forth on the cats, because I mean, what's the justification for adding or taking away anything? Lots are poor indicators of actual baseball value (runs, wins, stolen bases, saves), but I don't think any of us want to move to just having WAR or anything, so what's the dif? Some are higher-variance than others (OBP vs. W, for instance), but I think the current balance is good, and any other subbing is just nitpicking. The categories are just a vehicle for all the interesting stuff.

I'm not including RBIs.

The cats I posted are the fairest way to emulate real life value but still give incentive to start players with counting stats. I really don't see much of an argument to change any of them, sorry.

SLG and HR Stats will be pretty much identical in the leaderboard, if you want such heavy reliance on sluggers, so be it.

Not sure I get the hate on RBI's, though I understand they aren't indicative on the player's talents more his situation, but so what. I like that it adds a whole situation for me to sweat my players IRL. My incentive to watch Slappy McOBP with runners on base goes way up. Also +1 for SLG/HR being redundant. that said, SLG/HR are important and them counting twice isn't a megadisaster if that's what you guys really want. And sounds that way from Karak's "I'm open to suggestions never done this before yadayadayada.... BUT NO IM NOT CHANGING THE CATS!"

also, since we're a 12 team league, should we start 4 OF's instead of 3? Normal fantasy leagues start 4-5, while i've noticed most dynasty ones do 3, but they often have like 20 teams.

Also, no cap on IP right? If someone has the cap space available could they stream pitchers towards the end of the season? How are the contracts prorated?

I like keeping RBI instead of Slugging for this reason, I know its a meaningless irl stat but I think it makes for a good fantasy stat.

Sorry I skimmed this post, if we're talking real life value lets get rid of saves.

They're not pretty much identical, but they're highly correlated, obviously. But HR and SLG are roughly equal in their shared variance as HR and RBI, so it's not like we improve very much with replacement. And AVG is very well correlated with OBP, so again, it's not obvious how to get away from that. I just don't see much difference one way or the other.

I was surprised too, but it makes practically no difference. R-squared of HR and SLG is .75. R-squared of HR and RBI is .73. Same same in terms of overlap.

Quick vote on cats? Karak posts a list of 14 or something (7x7) to choose from, everyone submits their 10 over the next three days (obviously not everyone will vote, but that's cool), top 5 in batting and pitching win. If Karak wants to leave RBI out of the voting in exchange for being good enough to organize all this, I have no problem with that.

Or Karak can just lay it down and decide. But it's not worth a protracted debate IMO.

Stats will stay. We have other **** we gotta get done. No time to really hash it out. I've used those cats for years now, and they've always worked out. I tried to find a 5th stat that's better, but there's simply too much overlap everywhere and SLG is the most value-oriented and useful stat to use. Ok so power hitters are important... just like IRL. *shrug*

knowing this i have less of an issue. ty

So, with 1/4 of the season left, it'd cost $.350M * 25% * 15%= $13k of cap space to stream a starter for one game? This would inevitably come up at some point in the season.