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DFS Industry Discussion Thread DFS Industry Discussion Thread

11-19-2015 , 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkgojackets
50/50s pay out a higher % of the pot than double ups. 90% vs 88ish%.

there are certainly reasons to play 2x instead (bigger player pool attracts more fish, etc) but thinking the difference in number of payout spots "isn't worth" the 10% reduction is mathematically wrong.
Hmm... It's about $0.07 per $2 for an extra $0.40 to gain finishing in the top 44% versus the top 50%. Where am I messing this up?
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11-19-2015 , 03:08 PM
Lol at thinking lines have half the money in each side.

Also no college dfs because only the ncaa can take advantage of college athletes. Also is unbearable for me and I've lost way more than I should at college dfs (a few hundo)
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11-19-2015 , 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Oi!
Hmm... It's about $0.07 per $2 for an extra $0.40 to gain finishing in the top 44% versus the top 50%. Where am I messing this up?
You have to look at it in terms of rake percentage. I think Dkgo is saying the rake is about 12% for double-ups vs 10% for 50/50s.

But your example works too. Say your playing $1 50/50s. If you win 50 out of 100, you will have $90 (50 x $1.80) If you play $1 double ups, you would win 44 out of 100, so you will have $88 (44 x $2). So, all things being equal, your ROI expectation is higher in the 50/50s because of lower rakes.
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11-19-2015 , 03:21 PM
Perfectly fine with college sports being left out.

No late swap is silly.
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11-19-2015 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGambool
Mass AG just set out DFS regulations with a 60 day comment period. Not ideal, but somewhat reasonable.

Some big changes are
---Stricter limits on entries per contest (capped at 3% of entries for larger contests)
---21 age limit
---No late swap allowed (not 100% sure on this, lock time isn't a defined term)
---No scripts
---No college sports DFS
---Beginner only contests and ways to identify "highly experienced users"
---$1000 a month deposit limit with increases subject to asset and income verification

Hard to see sites leaving Massachusetts over this IMO. Its a big state and walking away from somewhat sensible regulations would seem like an unwise move. So guess if you play college sports DFS, enjoy it now.
fine with all of this, but do prefer to keep late swap available to sites that want to have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzu24
Why no college DFS? I've never understood why it's any different or shouldn't be allowed.

Regarding the ways to identify "highly experienced users" it says the following:

Highly-experienced Player: Any DFS player who has

1) entered more than 1,000 contests offered by a single DFSO; or

2) entered more than 250 contests offered by a single DFSO and has prevailed in more than 65% of the total number of such contests; or

3) has won more than three DFS contest Prizes valued at $1,000 or more.

Once a DFS player is classified as a Highly-experienced Player, a player will remain classified as such.

These are pretty obviously really stupid and will have to be redone if they want to accomplish something with them.
no college DFS makes some sense to me. Like, no pro football QB or NBA player is going to be swayed to throw a game bc someone offers him a cut of their winnings, but a college player who has no shot at the pros could easily be convinced for an amount that could conceivably be won.

Those experienced player rules are perfectly fine with me. Basically everyone who is even somewhat decent will be qualified as such and people can change their play accordingly.
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11-19-2015 , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGambool
I think its more likely they try to make modest adjustments to these rules during the comment period, tailor their sites to follow them, and try to use them as a blueprint for other states to follow.

There's nothing terminal to the business model in here and walking away from a state that has been relatively reasonable in trying to regulate the industry seems like a great way to catch more bans.
Or, the opposite could happen. Once they agree to one state's demands, then every other state might come along with their own unique set of regs.

Also I'm not sure that things like income verification qualifies as "reasonable".
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11-19-2015 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzu24
Why no college DFS? I've never understood why it's any different or shouldn't be allowed....

.

The 1992 Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act
granted the NCAA or any such organization standing to seek an injunction against any State which tries to legalize betting on its games.

PASPA is the statute underlying the litigation brought by the NCAA (and NFL, among others) against New Jersey's legislation allowing casinos to book sports bets on their game. NCAA has been winning at each stage, the matter is before the Third Circuit for rehearing. The last round score can be summarized like this:

"PASPA, by its terms, prohibits states from authorizing by law sports gambling, and the 2014 Law [in New Jersey]does exactly that."

I doubt anyone on the DFS site would seek out PASPA trouble at this point, i.e. a State law authorizing "bets" on amateur sports.

Last edited by Gzesh; 11-19-2015 at 03:38 PM.
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11-19-2015 , 03:32 PM
I am willing to bet that both DK and FD would sign onto all of those rules today if they could get them applied nationally. I would continue to play the same volume under those rules and think most people would do the same minus whatever they lose in college volume.
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11-19-2015 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckSauce
Perfectly fine with college sports being left out.

No late swap is silly.
Probably an attempt to avoid insider information being used?

I can't imagine they mean you are not allowed to change your lineup once you submit it right before kick off for the first game, probably like you can't change your 4:00 players after the contest kicks off at 1:00 (NFL example).
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11-19-2015 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimSalabim
That sounds like a nightmare for the sites to manage. I predict they just walk away from MA.
They may or may not be good rules, but they are absolutely not a nightmare to manage. The toughest would be the 21+ rule, which plenty of other companies have solved pretty easily with a scanned ID.
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11-19-2015 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledDownLight
I am willing to bet that both DK and FD would sign onto all of those rules today if they could get them applied nationally. I would continue to play the same volume under those rules and think most people would do the same minus whatever they lose in college volume.
Yeah I'd jump all over this, even if 10-15 states were gone. The problem is keeping interstate alive with every state pumping out different regs. It could be a compliance nightmare, and that's if no state(s) goes full ****** with terrible regs, and that's probably going to happen.
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11-19-2015 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledDownLight

Those experienced player rules are perfectly fine with me. Basically everyone who is even somewhat decent will be qualified as such and people can change their play accordingly.
Tons of losing players would be classified as "highly experienced" with these rules. Seems kinda weird.

The 3 $1000 cashes seems really dumb. Say a rich fish plays DFS for the first time and he plays 3 $530 h2hs and wins all 3 for $3k. Is he going to be marked as highly experienced after playing 3 games?

I have no problem with most of that stuff, but it is definitely in need of refining.
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11-19-2015 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimSalabim
Or, the opposite could happen. Once they agree to one state's demands, then every other state might come along with their own unique set of regs.

Also I'm not sure that things like income verification qualifies as "reasonable".
So I agree income verification is silly, as is no late swap, but dealing with each states unique sets of regs is kind of the reality these sites are going to be dealing with for the forseeable future.

They should push for Federal standards, but that's an uphill fight, gambling regulations are traditionally a state level exercise.

If FD and DK are going to leave every state that either bans DFS or regulates DFS (these regulations are about an 8 out of 10 in terms of what they can expect from a state drawing up DFS regulations) they're going to shrink themselves out of business while they are pushing for Federal standards.

These aren't the regs Id have drawn up personally, but there's nothing fatal in here. FanDuel coming out and applauding these and saying they are constructive is, IMO, indicative of how sites are going to approach these regs and trying to use them as a blueprint is a smart approach IMHO.

Quote:
Tons of losing players would be classified as "highly experienced" with these rules. Seems kinda weird.

The 3 $1000 cashes seems really dumb. Say a rich fish plays DFS for the first time and he plays 3 $530 h2hs and wins all 3 for $3k. Is he going to be marked as highly experienced after playing 3 games?

I have no problem with most of that stuff, but it is definitely in need of refining.
This isn't a good approach for what the state is trying to accomplish, certainly, but not like its a deal breaker for players either.

Late swap is the big issue in there for me. Id be subject to the income verification rule and am not that concerned about it, they flag you today when you increase deposit limits having to send in a paystub or something isn't going to really make me lose a lot of sleep.
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11-19-2015 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losing all
Yeah I'd jump all over this, even if 10-15 states were gone. The problem is keeping interstate alive with every state pumping out different regs. It could be a compliance nightmare, and that's if no state(s) goes full ****** with terrible regs, and that's probably going to happen.
It doesn't make much sense for states to carve out regulations that DFS sites cannot or will not comply with. Doing that essentially would result in a huge backlash from the players within your state who would effectively be banned from playing. Hopefully these rules will set a standard or be a prototype for other states to follow.

I'm glad that there's no apparent money grab involved in the regulations. Imagine how hard it would be to play interstate games when one state wants to rake off 5% from its players while another wants to rake 2% etc.
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11-19-2015 , 04:03 PM
I don't see the rule where NBA teams need to announce lineups one hour before first game tips. And if not, subject to a large fine.
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11-19-2015 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyB66
I don't see the rule where NBA teams need to announce lineups one hour before first game tips. And if not, subject to a large fine.
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11-19-2015 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyB66
I don't see the rule where NBA teams need to announce lineups one hour before first game tips. And if not, subject to a large fine.
Yeah, this would be fun just to see if Popovich is willing to mess with it, like send out Duncan for the tip and then set him the rest of the game or have him warm up and claim a injury.....
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11-19-2015 , 05:29 PM
So max could only enter the MM about 6,000 times under these new restrictions?
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11-19-2015 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzu24
Tons of losing players would be classified as "highly experienced" with these rules. Seems kinda weird.

The 3 $1000 cashes seems really dumb. Say a rich fish plays DFS for the first time and he plays 3 $530 h2hs and wins all 3 for $3k. Is he going to be marked as highly experienced after playing 3 games?
exactly
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11-19-2015 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower Man
So max could only enter the MM about 6,000 times under these new restrictions?
Yes,but it will keep him out of $3 115 man leagues which the d-bag actually plays in.Top prize is like $60.
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11-19-2015 , 06:23 PM
someone was posting about how they have 20% ROI on $1 games and that is why they play them

clicking a mouse for 20 cents, what a life
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11-19-2015 , 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefNotRsigley
someone was posting about how they have 20% ROI on $1 games and that is why they play them

clicking a mouse for 20 cents, what a life
nsis
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11-19-2015 , 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyPhelan
Yes,but it will keep him out of $3 115 man leagues which the d-bag actually plays in.Top prize is like $60.
All it says is that he can fire no more than 3 bullets in such a contest. The larger point is, the person(s) writing these rules don't really understand how it works, and now we have some really bizarre "fairness" rules that don't really accomplish anything.
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11-19-2015 , 07:12 PM
MAAG rules are a template.She sounds reasonable unlike the scumbag glory hound we have in NY.
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11-19-2015 , 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyPhelan
MAAG rules are a template.She sounds reasonable unlike the scumbag glory hound we have in NY.
The 1k deposit limit is kind of low/silly. Hopefully that is something that could get worked out. It's fine that there will be guidelines but every state can't have their own otherwise will be too hard to comply.
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