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Old 01-28-2015, 08:15 AM   #76
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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Originally Posted by Buffalo66 View Post
Profitability may become a bigger issue down the road. FD/DK are spending lots of VC money to build market share and also relationships with the sports leagues. Their world will be big enough that if/when they launch an IPO, the founders will become very rich.

Then these eventually huge public companies will be all about the bottom line.

While it is a huge growth industry right now, how much longer will it continue to grow exponentially? Handing out big cardboard checks and trips to the Playboy mansion is great, but it seems like the casual guy fan market is being penetrated right now. ESPN, NBC/Rotoworld, NBA, NHL, sports radio all offer DFS promotion or content.

The casual girl fan will probably never respond to those marketing efforts (especially when DK commercials talk about getting super models in your underpants). I know plenty of women who have discretionary income and are sports fans - attend NFL/NHL games and even play season long fantasy with friends - but they are spending their money on wine and pumpkin spice lattes, not a milly maker ticket.

Also IMO legalized sports betting will kill DFS growth because Joe Public degens would rather place $20 on the Cowboys than take time to fill out a fantasy lineup. Sports betting is coming, it's just a matter of time.
I agree with all of what you said, save the last graph. Because of at least two-decade long experience with fantasy football leagues, the casual sports fan would be just as inclined to fill out a DFS lineup as to sportsbet, if not more so.

Although I live in Vegas and have friends who actively sportsbet, it's always seemed too "gambly" for me, despite being a professional poker player. Although DFS is more luck-based than poker (you have zero control over whether John Wall strains a hammy in the first quarter or getting "Pop'd" with the Spurs resting their aging starters, but I can always fold to a river raise if the board runs out super scary), it's still largely a skill game with lots of information out there on how to improve. While delving into the DFS grind has taken me right up against the line of pure sportsbetting (a bit uncomfortably so), I never would have gotten into it if it weren't for my 15 year experience with season long fantasy football.

I'd "bet" my experience isn't merely anecdotal.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:23 AM   #77
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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I think one appeal of dfs over traditional sports betting is massive prize pools. Ain't gonna ship a millball betting -110s.
This.

And seeing a poker player ship a Milly Maker (think it was SamENole) is what pushed me over the edge into finally regging. This is despite the fact that one of my poker friends told me about DFS two years ago and got me into a DraftDay account. Played one freeroll and promptly forgot about the DFS experience until 2014.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:19 AM   #78
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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I agree with all of what you said, save the last graph. Because of at least two-decade long experience with fantasy football leagues, the casual sports fan would be just as inclined to fill out a DFS lineup as to sportsbet, if not more so.

Although I live in Vegas and have friends who actively sportsbet, it's always seemed too "gambly" for me, despite being a professional poker player. Although DFS is more luck-based than poker (you have zero control over whether John Wall strains a hammy in the first quarter or getting "Pop'd" with the Spurs resting their aging starters, but I can always fold to a river raise if the board runs out super scary), it's still largely a skill game with lots of information out there on how to improve. While delving into the DFS grind has taken me right up against the line of pure sportsbetting (a bit uncomfortably so), I never would have gotten into it if it weren't for my 15 year experience with season long fantasy football.

I'd "bet" my experience isn't merely anecdotal.
Could just as easily say you're all in preflop with AA and lose.
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:03 PM   #79
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

Regarding the luck/skill element - contest sites have to strike a balance between creating a game that's simple enough for a casual fan to play, yet has enough skill element for the hardcore regs.

This has turned me off from some sites (for example, soft pricing which forces lots of roster overlap). The more elements to the scoring table should equal more skill, but it's got to be simple enough for beginners to follow along.

I also don't really like that bankroll is such a weapon right now. Unlimited entries is really a turnoff for me, I would like to see a milly maker fill up with a 20 entry limit.
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:11 PM   #80
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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I never would have gotten into it if it weren't for my 15 year experience with season long fantasy football.

I'd "bet" my experience isn't merely anecdotal.
I feel like DFS has already reached players like yourself (with multiple years of traditional fantasy). They've already seen FD/DK ads.

It seems to me most of this latest advertising is to cultivate the youth market, getting new users as they turn 18.
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:44 PM   #81
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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Regarding the luck/skill element - contest sites have to strike a balance between creating a game that's simple enough for a casual fan to play, yet has enough skill element for the hardcore regs.

This has turned me off from some sites (for example, soft pricing which forces lots of roster overlap). The more elements to the scoring table should equal more skill, but it's got to be simple enough for beginners to follow along.

I also don't really like that bankroll is such a weapon right now. Unlimited entries is really a turnoff for me, I would like to see a milly maker fill up with a 20 entry limit.
Milly Maker doesn't even come close to filling now with thousands of multi entries.
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:59 PM   #82
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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Milly Maker doesn't even come close to filling now with thousands of multi entries.
Which goes back to my point about profitability. A $27 entry tournament in the most popular sport (NFL) with unlimited entries and a week to fill... doesn't fill.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:24 PM   #83
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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Which goes back to my point about profitability. A $27 entry tournament in the most popular sport (NFL) with unlimited entries and a week to fill... doesn't fill.
FD didn't have much trouble filling their giant $25 GPP's. It's not that there isn't enough demand for such a thing, it's that a lot of regs (rec-top pros) didn't care for the payout structure in the MM. There was a ton of chatter on RG about the "lottery ticket" aspect of the MM. Sure a lot of these guys played, but less than they would have with a more normal payout structure.


As far as the industry already reaching all of the die hard full season guys, I disagree. I played high stakes full season baseball from 95-14 and gambled for a living 8 of those years (my point being you'd think I'd be in the top 1% of the demo), yet I didn't even consider trying DFS until about a week before opening day last year. Just look at how the 2p2 threads have exploded from 13' to 14', in all sports. Don't you think that trend will continue from 14' to 15' and 15' to 16' at least? I do. MLB is going to be insane this year, and who knows how much bigger this thing will be by NFL week 1.
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Old 01-29-2015, 09:51 PM   #84
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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Which goes back to my point about profitability. A $27 entry tournament in the most popular sport (NFL) with unlimited entries and a week to fill... doesn't fill.
FD has very little overlay, for NBA on a daily basis, and down the stretch for NFL.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:37 AM   #85
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

FD does a great job of eliminating overlay. DK is more likely to risk an overlay in some sports.

OTOH, FD does a horrible job undersizing the tournaments in the "smaller" sports, such as CBB, CFB and NHL. You will find a thread pretty much every week on RG complaining about how the tourneys are too small and they filled up too fast.

IMO FD leaving a lot of profit on the table in these instances.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:52 AM   #86
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

"@ericdanielfrank
Daily fantasy would remain prohibited under new version of Washington bill expected to be introduced today."

http://www.king5.com/story/sports/20...ture/22572397/
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:33 PM   #87
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

http://www.king5.com/story/sports/2015/01/30/fantasy-football-olympia-legislature/22572397/[/url]

Quote:
Websites like Draft Kings and Fan Duals have expanded into daily fantasy sports. However, that has been determined to be more "chance" than "skill" by lawmakers. Sen. Roach's altered bill would keep those games illegal.

"We want to allow season-long fantasy sports," she said.
wtfffffffffffffffffffffffffff

also, lmao @ "Fan Duals"
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:55 PM   #88
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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"@ericdanielfrank
Daily fantasy would remain prohibited under new version of Washington bill expected to be introduced today."

http://www.king5.com/story/sports/20...ture/22572397/
Read the bill, no idea why it would prohibit DFS.
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:32 PM   #89
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

Daily fantasy is already legal. A bill would have to try to ban daily fantasy. That's not this, I'm very confused by a need for a bill.

DFS isn't going anywhere.
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:33 PM   #90
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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Daily fantasy is already legal. A bill would have to try to ban daily fantasy. That's not this, I'm very confused by a need for a bill.

DFS isn't going anywhere.
It's not legal in WA state....
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:48 PM   #91
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

Ohhhhhh.

Gotcha, makes sense now.
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Old 01-30-2015, 06:35 PM   #92
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

Wearing Seahawks Gear, Lawmakers Support Fantasy Football
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Old 01-30-2015, 06:48 PM   #93
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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You think it will pass?
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:37 PM   #94
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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You think it will pass?
I honestly dont know. But I do know if you live in WA and fantasy sports is of interest to you, contact your representative, immediately.
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Old 02-02-2015, 07:54 PM   #95
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

Email I received from the WA State Gambling Commission:

Quote:
Thank you for your interest in the bill and the testimony. I anticipate the Commissioners will discuss the bill at their public meeting on February 12 and will likely take a position on it. I will make sure your e-mail is provided to the Commissioners for their consideration at the meeting. If you would like to attend the meeting and share your comments in person, you are welcome to do that. Click here for the February Commission meeting webpage. The meeting location is posted here and the meeting agenda will be posted by the end of this week.

As you know, there is debate on whether fantasy sports are gambling or not. Here’s an article you might find interesting: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...duel/21612771/

If you would like to contact the legislative Committee, you are welcome to do that, also. I would recommend you e-mail Senator Baumgartner, who is the Chair of the Committee, and Senator Pam Roach who is the sponsor of the bill, to share your thoughts. Once a Committee hearing has concluded, contacting the Chair and sponsor is the best way to pass along additional thoughts.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Sincerely,
Susan Newer
Rules Coordinator & Public Information Officer
Washington State Gambling Commission
Encouraging to actually receive a reply, hopefully the Senators I emailed also reply this week. The bolded is a bit troublesome. During the hearing on 1/30 it was quite clear the committee had no real clue what DFS was. Maybe they've done their research, but two weeks is pretty hasty. I may try to testify and defend DFS as a game of skill.
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:20 AM   #96
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

Dear Person in Charge,

I am one of the estimated 10% or 700,000 residents of Washington State who enjoys fantasy sports both for season long and daily leagues. I watched the video testimony on "SB 5284: Fantasy Sports Contest" at Friday's Senate Commerce and Labor Committee debate and felt there was a lot of confusion particularly on the topic of the daily games that I want to clarify.

In 2006 when Federal legislation passed specifically exempting fantasy sports, the concept of a daily game did not exist. As fantasy sports grew in popularity, the daily game was created to address two major flaws in the season long fantasy experience: 1) Athlete injuries ruining a seasonal team and 2) Loss of interest in the activity due to a poor start. In my opinion and the growing opinion of millions of others, the daily game variety offers the superior fantasy experience.

Of course the question remains: Is it luck or a skill based activity? Unfortunately there is not a simple litmus test for the question. I recall the story of the golfing legend Gary Player who was once asked how he was so fortunate to make so many long distance shots. He responded, "The harder I work, the luckier I get!"

1) Real money daily leagues and season leagues are legal in 45 states (all except Arizona, Iowa, Louisiana, Montana and Washington). Did you know that there are only two states in the US that prohibit all forms of gambling? That means no casinos, lotteries, horse races, sports betting, pull tabs, or even bingo. Those states are Hawaii and Utah. Both of those states allow for fantasy sports betting (both the seasonal and daily leagues). Those states where it remains illegal are largely due to ambiguities in the law (For example the RCW never even mentions “fantasy sports”).

2) Once allowed, no state has decided to opt out of this activity. Perhaps most striking is Utah with the strictest gambling laws in the nation including legislation opting out of any potential future federal legislation authorizing online gambling. Yet real money daily and season long online betting leagues are allowed in the state. There is a difference and it's not just semantics.

3) My personal experience. If you believe the daily leagues are not a game of skill, I’d like to propose a challenge: Let's play a friendly (no money at stake of course) daily game or two of fantasy NBA basketball. I have absolute confidence that you will have almost zero chance of defeating me. Is this not the best definition of a true game of skill?
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:24 AM   #97
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

Just a warning, if you email through WA.gov, you are limited to 1000 characters.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:07 AM   #98
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

http://app.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summa...2015&bill=1301

House version of the bill scheduled for public hearing on Feb 10th. Doubt I can testify in person at 1:30 on a Tuesday but I'll be emailing all of the representatives ahead of time.
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:30 PM   #99
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

Washington state bill pulled from hearing.

Also, class suit filed against DK in Florida: http://www.odfreport.com/wp-content/...orida-suit.pdf
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:30 AM   #100
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread (1st State law introduced today)

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Washington state bill pulled from hearing.

Also, class suit filed against DK in Florida: http://www.odfreport.com/wp-content/...orida-suit.pdf
wow talk about a few ruining for millions by filing lawsuits?... I have just skimmed through. Is this just a bunch of sore losers that are filing a lawsuit because they did not know it was gambling? also looks like they do not understand how bonuses work LOL
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