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Old 02-05-2009, 02:07 PM   #1
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Would You Run it Twice?

At my home game we allow running a hand twice in certain situations and this dilemna came up in a recent game where the table was half split on a decision of what they would do. Say all the money goes in PF with AA vs. KK, does the player holding AA allow the hand to be run twice? Alot of the people at the game were suggesting that running it twice with AA is the better play since if u get screwed the first hand and lose to the KK, you are probably a even more dominant favorite to win the 2nd time. But if i were the KK and the AA offered to run it twice, my stance is to say no...correct? Since the chances of winning both times is very unlikely thus leaving the first time thru ur best chance to scoop the pot. This was a running argument over the course of that night and im curious to see what other people think of this. I dont have any stats to back up my thoughts just common poker knowledge so please lets see some stats thrown around.
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:32 PM   #2
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

There's no difference, aside from the immediate (that is, this session) outcome of the hand. Running it twice makes it more likely that the guy with AA won't scoop the pot

Here are the outcomes. I'll simplify and say KK has 20% chance of winning.

AA wins both: 0.8*0.8 = .64 = 64%
KK wins both: 0.2*0.2 = 0.04 = 4%
AA wins one, KK wins one = .2*.8 + .8*.2 = 32%

Note that AA will only lose his stack 4% of the time although he also doubles up less. In the long run there's no particular difference but if getting stacked means you have to stop playing then AA might want to run it twice.

There are reasons to run it twice aside from the variance reduction also though. If the guy with KK is good for the game, you'd rather he keep playing than get stacked and leave you with the rest of the nits.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:59 PM   #3
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

Why are you running it twice at a home game? Maybe you guys should just play lower stakes or else you are missing the point of running it twice.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:01 PM   #4
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

I've played home games for Real Money before, it happens a lot more in places like texas where there is no casino gambling, and any sort of poker room that charges a rake is illegal. Would I personally choose to run it twice? No, probably not. If someone else wanted to, I definitely would, why not.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:47 PM   #5
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

I think you are asking if running AAvsKK twice is an advantage to KK, yes, no?

If that's your question, then I can say with certainty that no hand has an advantage when running it twice. The common argument is that if the first board is all bricks now it is more likely for a K to show up in the second board.

The counter to that argument is ask what is different if the K comes on the first board? Then it is highly unlikely for the case K to come on the second board. It just so happens that the odds even out and the order of to boards is more for drama than percentages.

The other argument is that after the first board of bricks, AA has locked up half the pot so even though a K is much more likely now, you are only playing for half the stakes.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:34 PM   #6
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

Standard line: running it twice never changes expected value, and reduces (approximately halves) variance. No matter what hands are involved.

No difference who offers/who accepts, unless there is significance to someone not being able to rebuy.

In my experience, vastly more common in home NL games than in casinos - usually it is people who are friends and not wanting to take money from each other over coinflips that do it. Not so often I see such an uneven matchup as AA vs KK ask.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:48 PM   #7
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegmund View Post
usually it is people who are friends and not wanting to take money from each other over coinflips that do it.
At one my home games, we usually run it three times. Hands like AKvsQQ pf and a flop hand like an overpair vs a pair and a flush draw. These pots usually end up with 2/3 going to one guy.

And it's usually later on when there is more cash on the table and some guy doesn't want lose it all on a coin flip.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:23 PM   #8
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

It doesn't matter.
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:10 PM   #9
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

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Originally Posted by Lego05 View Post
It doesn't matter.
Other than taking a bit more time, nope, doesn't matter.
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Old 02-08-2009, 12:17 AM   #10
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

THOSE ACES BETTER RUN IT ONCE TO KEEP THEM KINGS FROM SPLITTING!
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Old 02-08-2009, 02:16 PM   #11
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bRiMaTiOn View Post
THOSE ACES BETTER RUN IT ONCE TO KEEP THEM KINGS FROM SPLITTING!
What about the 20% of the time when the kings win the whole pot? That sucks doesn't it? Have you read the other responses in this post?
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:16 PM   #12
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

I would run it twice in cash games all the time.

But in a tourney maybe just risk getting the chips or losing them in the right situations.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:19 PM   #13
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

You can't run it twice in a tourney.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:35 PM   #14
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

lol
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:43 PM   #15
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Re: Would You Run it Twice?

Running twice lowers variance, doesn't chance EV. I hate variance, think I would run it twice if the other guy would also wanted it.
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