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Old 05-10-2017, 10:52 AM   #1
BluffJobz
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What are your trouble hands?

This is mainly about cash games since we will be playing wider hands in tournaments.

We should always be thinking about how we are going to play hand on later streets preflop. Hands like 22 are easy to play because all you think about is flopping a set and most of the time your hand is good at the flop and if not, you can always make a boat or quads so very unlikely that you are drawing dead.

1. Some hands I hate playing are cards like A2o. You never feel comfortable with a small pair of 2 so its hard to bet this hand and by not betting, opponents can catch a better late. Pair of A with 2 kicker also is not great. Making a straight with A2 is also never the nuts because someone can always have a higher straight. To me A3-A-4 makes a dramatic jump from A2. If I am playing A2, it almost has to be suited. With these hands, position is key and limping in early position and playing draws in this position is tough.

2. A9 is also a tough hand. Damn I hate A9. The drop off from AT to A9 is big since you can't make a straight. And a 9 kicker never feels great.

3. 99 are also interesting to play. Preflop raise seems standard with this hand but over cards and a pair of 99 will be hard to bet on the river with. If you hit a set, completely a different story. I like to play any pairs for that reason.

What are your trouble / tricky hands?
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:08 AM   #2
Alfred
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

I'd say med pairs from 6-9 in middle position, alot of times I feel like I waste $20 calling preflop or opening for $15 to see over cards falling in everyone's range but mine lol maybe I just playing it wrong. I also have trouble with K10/K9 sometimes . Flopping top pair not the best kickers . Hands like those mostly .

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Old 05-10-2017, 12:04 PM   #3
675LT
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

Medium high pairs, if flop shows two bigger cards. Should always fold if someone has raised from utg-mp.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:20 PM   #4
ArtyMcFly
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

I don't really have trouble hands. Some of the hands mentioned (e.g. A9o, A2o) barely get played anyway, because of their lack of post-flop playability. FWIW, I really hate pocket deuces. It's easy enough to play, but that doesn't stop it from being a ****ty hand.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:25 PM   #5
Shamway99
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

22 is not so easy hand due to low equity and playability postflop. You can say I fold it unimproved/playing set but it is not true, having too many such hands in postflop range makes you to x/f or F2cb otf too often.
Ofc Axo must be difficult hand postflop on the other hand 99 is rather easy in unraised/single raised flop.
You should not think about limping in early position.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:17 PM   #6
BDHarrison
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

I usually fold A2o in a limped pot OTB and in the SB, so I find it easy to play.

99 isn't that hard to play. You should understand that you are trying to avoid playing for stacks if you don't flop a set. You need to know when your hand has more value as a bluff-catcher than as a bluff or a thin value bet.

My trouble hands are when I try to buy the pot preflop with trash. I should basically just give up when my c-bet is called on the flop, if they don't fold pre.
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Old 05-14-2017, 04:44 AM   #7
AreYouQualified
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

AQo costs me so I've been snap folding it in unopened pots lately
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Old 05-14-2017, 07:01 AM   #8
Kelvis
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouQualified View Post
AQo costs me so I've been snap folding it in unopened pots lately
Maybe you should add 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AKo, AJo-A2o, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 82o+, 72o+, 62o+, 52o+, 42o+, 32o to your folding range.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:05 AM   #9
Yadoula8
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

Awww leave him alone Kelvis!

You guys seem to be struggling a lot with those weak Ax. These hands are great to play very slowly. We want to keep the pot small.

Preflop I would happily limp the sb in that A2 example. And on the button I would probably isolate or fold unless the blinds are the types of players who wont raise it up.

Postflop I would let a lot of A high flops and quite a few turns slip by without any bets. I might soak up one bet myself, because I would usually expect the board not to change and so expect the villain not to bet again unless he has me beat.

What we are doing on each of these streets is taking our Ax from our perceived range. This encourages the villain to bluff us, and encourages them to call us while weak.

... I personally don't have any hand that is harder to play than any other. For me, the thought process is always the same.
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Old 05-14-2017, 12:54 PM   #10
getmeoffcompletely
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

If you find a had "difficult" in a particular spot it's likely because it's right on the margin. Don't sweat it too much you're not gaining or losing any big ev either way.
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Old 05-14-2017, 04:58 PM   #11
BDHarrison
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

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Originally Posted by Yadoula8 View Post
You guys seem to be struggling a lot with those weak Ax. These hands are great to play very slowly. We want to keep the pot small.
I think that some no-limit players struggle with the idea of playing small pot poker. They either want to stack someone or bluff someone. They are not mentally equipped to take advantage of a table where you can grind your stack up with a lot of small pots that go to showdown.
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:01 AM   #12
AreYouQualified
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

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Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
Maybe you should add 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AKo, AJo-A2o, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 82o+, 72o+, 62o+, 52o+, 42o+, 32o to your folding range.
I fold small PPs all the time too.
I play a simple nit strategy and it's pretty much unbeatable if you do it right.

ETA: AJo gets fired into the muck just as quickly as 7-2
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:18 AM   #13
floattheboat
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

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Originally Posted by AreYouQualified View Post
I fold small PPs all the time too.
I play a simple nit strategy and it's pretty much unbeatable if you do it right.

ETA: AJo gets fired into the muck just as quickly as 7-2
I can beat you by folding marginal hands when you are in the pot and going for hands that have big implied odds in position.
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:43 AM   #14
Kelvis
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

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Originally Posted by floattheboat View Post
I can beat you by folding marginal hands when you are in the pot and going for hands that have big implied odds in position.
I can beat him with just clicking raise when he is in the blinds. If he open folds AQ there is literally nothing he can do.
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:57 AM   #15
AreYouQualified
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

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I can beat him with just clicking raise when he is in the blinds. If he open folds AQ there is literally nothing he can do.
My blinds are vulnerable to being stolen, true.

Part of the trick is to buyin for the min or slightly more.
Deep stacked Opponents don't adjust for my stack size and it's not hard to wait for hands and get paid.
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:16 AM   #16
Kelvis
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

I wanted to refer you to BBV but instead I am going to wish you luck with your sinking ship strategy and be done with it. Don't forget to put in the occasional aces into the mix when you fold the button.
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:45 AM   #17
AreYouQualified
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

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I wanted to refer you to BBV but instead I am going to wish you luck with your sinking ship strategy and be done with it. Don't forget to put in the occasional aces into the mix when you fold the button.
My results say otherwise. It's a consistent winning strategy . People don't adjust, most of them wouldn't even know how. Did I mention I never bluff?(maybe I steal a pot once a month)

99% of ppl on here will say you have to buy in for the max (and play an aggro style) to maximize your EV and it's just not the case.
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Old 05-15-2017, 05:27 AM   #18
Yadoula8
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

Lol mate if it's a strategy that works against your opponents then go for it.

Yeah Harrison I think your right. There is lots of money to be made in little pots by making ourselves look really weak, but yeah it involves a lot of planning the future and some smooth turn n river skills which many players are incapable of
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:57 AM   #19
Kelvis
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouQualified View Post
I fold small PPs all the time too.
I play a simple nit strategy and it's pretty much unbeatable if you do it right.

ETA: AJo gets fired into the muck just as quickly as 7-2
You said it was "unbeatable". You are now backing down to "my opponents were dropped on the head when they were little so they won't exploit the huge gaping hole in my strategy" is that right?
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:15 PM   #20
AreYouQualified
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

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You said it was "unbeatable". You are now backing down to "my opponents were dropped on the head when they were little so they won't exploit the huge gaping hole in my strategy" is that right?
I've clogged up this thread enough with talking about my strat.. it's nothing secret. Google shortstacking and other related topics and you'll find more complete explanations

BTW I'm specifically talking about live casino full ring poker. Online and/or shorthanded are different games
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:18 PM   #21
RustyBrooks
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

To most people "unbeatable" means "can not be beat" not "can not be beat by the people I play against"
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:12 PM   #22
floattheboat
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

Also "pretty much" IME means 'generally not'.
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:57 PM   #23
AreYouQualified
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

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Originally Posted by RustyBrooks View Post
To most people "unbeatable" means "can not be beat" not "can not be beat by the people I play against"
Have you played in Vegas lately? Or do you read on here about how all of the low limit games are full of nit grinders?

There's a reason the games there have evolved, or devolved, into tables full of nits trying to trap fish. It's the definition of ABC poker and it still works. If a bigger stack LAG-Gish strategy was really the way to crush (it's not) , all of the grinders would be doing it that way.


It works against all player types. Sure, my solid TAG opponents can steal my $3 blinds a lot, but I get plenty of their $ back when i show up with the best hand when the pots get big. It's not about who wins the most pots.


PS I don't live in Vegas , it's just a good example
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:24 PM   #24
SpewingIsMyMove
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

Value hands with a Q, like QQ and AQ. They have the tendency to hit hard enough you can't lay them down, but end up second best a lot. That being said, i will be very happy with a steady diet of AQ and QQ, they just seem to get me stacked off more often than other hands,
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:33 PM   #25
AreYouQualified
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Re: What are your trouble hands?

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Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
Value hands with a Q, like QQ and AQ. They have the tendency to hit hard enough you can't lay them down, but end up second best a lot. That being said, i will be very happy with a steady diet of AQ and QQ, they just seem to get me stacked off more often than other hands,
That's why I started open folding AQo in most positions.

The reverse implied odds offset a lot of the positive, if it helps to explain it like that.

Don't be afraid to fold QQ preflop if you sense KK or AA from your opponent. Otherwise learn to play it more cautiously if you find yourself getting stacked a lot holding Queens. Use pot control and play defensively if OOP, and don't always expect to get 3 streets of value from worse hands with unimproved QQ.

Last edited by AreYouQualified; 05-15-2017 at 09:40 PM.
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