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Old 08-12-2017, 06:41 PM   #1
Marc14
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Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Hey guys, hope you can settle an argument for me.

Are there any spots in NLHE in which we are ahead EV wise, bet, and want a villain to fold, from a math standpoint only?

Is it ever possible to put money in bad when we are ahead?

I guess we can make a bad bet and give V good odds for a call, but it's still putting in money good isn't it?

Thanks!

Last edited by Marc14; 08-12-2017 at 07:11 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:20 PM   #2
thorfather
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Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Let's assume we're on the turn with a PSB behind and a hand with 60% equity vs villain. If we bet pot and get a fold our EV is pot. If we get a call our EV is 0.6*3pot - pot = 0.8 pot, lower than our EV when V folds. Note that when we check our EV is only 0.6 pot (assuming river is always check/check) so betting and getting a fold > betting and getting called > checking.

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Old 08-12-2017, 07:46 PM   #3
ZKesic
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Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

If villian has odds to call, we want him to fold, it's as simple as that.
Even if villian has a draw on the turn, and our bet is giving him odds to call, we want him to fold, even though we may have 70%+ equity.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:19 PM   #4
Marc14
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Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Great, thanks to both of you.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:46 PM   #5
ArtyMcFly
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Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc14 View Post
Are there any spots in NLHE in which we are ahead EV wise, bet, and want a villain to fold, from a math standpoint only?
I don't know what you mean by "ahead EV wise". If you mean ahead in terms of equity (i.e. we're a favourite to have the best hand at showdown), then these spots arise constantly.
When I open AJo on the button, I would rather have the blinds fold than do anything else, even if I'm ahead, because my average EV when I'm dealt AJo in that spot might be something like 0.6bb, but stealing the blinds nets 1.5bb.
Preventing your opponents from realizing their equity is a key reason for betting/raising. In many spots, more of your EV comes from eliciting folds (and winning the whole pot) than by getting called (and winning a share of a bigger pot).
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:02 PM   #6
BDHarrison
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Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

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Originally Posted by Marc14 View Post
Is it ever possible to put money in bad when we are ahead?
Thanks!
If you mean being an underdog despite having the best made hand when the money goes in, you can put your money in bad with A2 against T9 on a 872 flop.
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