When playing live and are forced with a tough decision against villian, i.e. you got 4bet pre by a tight player while you hold KK, facing a big reraise with 2nd or 3rd nuts, etc.

And while you are in the tank, villian says, "I'll show if you fold."

Or, if you ask villian if he will show if you fold and he replies, "yes".. Or something similar... Do you interpret that as a strong hand most of the time?

Im interested in knowing what yoru experiences have been.

Personally, I'm more inclined to say yes if I want a fold and make a mental note not to bluff that person/the table for a while after showing.

Normally, they will have the goods. I did this when I first played live, and I saw quite a lot of other ppl doing it...

Against beginners "I'll show if you fold" usually means he's bluffing.

Against good players (who usually won't even answer that question), it can be either way depending on whether he's thinking second or third level.

Mostly people get quiet when they bluff and talkative when they have a hand.

+1
That is usually what I'm looking for when asking villain wether he will show or not if I fold.
The answer is not very important because villain will try to fool you (and even a fish can think 2nd or 3rd level for this kind of question). So I'd rather look for signs of strength/weakness in his general behaviour (ie quiet or talkative).

Of course, as usual for tells, this is very discutable and player dependant. Anyway, those are ways to explore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBSmU...layer_embedded

funny enough while speaking about this topic i came across this.

That's pretty sick. Personally, although not in the "speech" category I find this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueTulcI81AY so fkn sick. You've prolly seen it tho.

I've seen it before, but I still love this hand.

There are a few components to the speech tell that people forget.

#1 is who is giving the speech
#2 is who is receiving of the speech

I find that when fish start blabbing, they are almost always super strong.

I find that when vets or regs are giving the speech to a fish, the vet/reg is usually weak.

I find that when the vet/reg is giving the speech to another vet/reg then anything is possible.

I find that when nits or weak tight players give the speech they usually have a hand that is strong but vulnerable (TPTK or overpair on a FD or SD board) and they are trying to pot control, the most obvious one is "Let's check it down"

I find when donks give the speech they are usually average strength to weak

personally, 9 times out of 10, you're better off just not talking.

LOL "Lets Check it down" ya i love that one too hahaa

i love asking them if they'll show if i fold. i am more inclined to call if they say yes and more inclined to fold if they say no. or if they blatently say they'll show if you fold. i think that is a sign of weakness.

that's so annoying when people do that. let's keep poker pure.

yea, i do just the opposite.

Whenever someone says, "Lets check it down"
I say, "sorry I never do that" and then I bet big all the way to the river. 9 times out of 10, they fold by the turn

+1 to this

probably my biggest pet peeve in poker

i have found when people say i will show you on the flop they have a a hand like top pair weak kicker rarly post flop when i guy tell me that he will show me if i fold do i put him on a big hand but i think preflop the more they talk to more likely they are to have it

amazing

IMO...and just from my personal experiences, any talking is usually a sign of strength. Usually when someone is bluffing they want to do as little as possible so they appear strong and do not give you any reason to call. Obviously this is not 100% true, especially since they do not know the true strength of your hand.

I know that when I have been asked to show, I always comply by saying "Sure" even if I have the nuts. I do this for a couple of reasons. If I am bluffing this will create a lot more action for myself and usually makes the table loosen up if it has been very nitty. If I have the nuts, obviously the complete opposite happens. I get to play even more LAG as it may appear to certain players that I am just a f'n card rack tonight and they should just stay out of my way when I am invested in the pot.

Agree. Myself in this spot, I stare at the felt and don't say a word (regardless what I have). They usually read that as weak and I am usually strong, works for me.

You fire both of your barrels sometimes without a nut-type hand? Are you real?

So for me it depends how it occurs. If i ask them if they show me if i fold and they respond yes, i will usually fold, because to me more often than not its the truth and they have the goods. If after some time they tell me if you fold ill show, ill usually call, because it seems like something they have processed and decided to active step at falsifying the strength of their hand. This has been my experience, but at the same time, this is likely based on subconscious observations of that individual throughout play.

Last year at a 1/2 casino live game I turned the nut flush. The villian bets 1/2 pot and I raised him. The villian tanks. He is super nitty whilst I had a laggy bully image.
He tanks for a min about to fold so I started talking to him...
"I know what you have.."
"you have TPWK..."
"you always donk with TP hands..."
"its obvious I hit the flush..."
etc etc
Just when he was about to fold his hand I said those immortal words...
"I show if you fold"
Villian shoves all-in.

Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling whenever I see him.

I think theres a lesson there somewhere...
Whenever your villian is about to do something you don't want him to do....start making distractions....you might just change his mind.

Tough situation. When people bluff, generally very stiff/quiet. I think it used to be that when people would say something like that they often had air, but nowadays it seems like everybody is flipping it and showing down big hands. Thats exactly why i dont factor in those types vocal tells. I rely more on how the hand was played, betting pattern, and body language(especially the eyes).

the biggest tell is how comfortable the guy is who mucks jacks full. he speaks well, no worry at all. and stands up a bit. so confident. still tough laydown as he could have a straight and be a tard.