I'm just curious, say you suspect you are 4:1 against in a typical pair over pair situation heads up late in a SnG. Say the pot is 5000 and your opponent bets out 500. Should you call with the odds you're getting or raise an amount that would put you at even odds? Assume that the flop is out with two cards to come.

I would think that this has no merit in a cash game, but might in a tourney.

Not sure what you mean.
Stack sizes?
If you are saying: should you raise to 1667 so that you sort of got 4:1, then obviously not. When you haggle you go down not up.
Are you asking if you should raise so that if he shoves on the turn you have better odds to draw for two outs? Is there fold equity?
This is pretty unclear.

*edit--sorry thought you said 4:1 dog...haha

One way to play is if you have AA, you can raise him 1/6th of his stack. Since he is 7.5:1 to flop a set, if he calls, he is getting the wrong price.

I dont get ur question

so are u saying ur drawing to 2 outs after the flop or he is?

if your getting 500 to 5000 to call with QQ on 333 and u think he has AA you should only call if hes got atleast another 5000 behind.... if your ahead you should raise so he isnt getting the necessary implied odds or 21:1

You would not raise to "reduce your odds." That makes no sense.

You might raise if you suspect that you have good fold equity and so you semi-bluff raise.

But, if you assume that you have no fold equity, and if you further assume that you are facing an overpair with your nut flush draw, then you would either (1) fold to a 500 bet with 5000 behind if you thought villain would fold if you hit your flush, or (2) call if you thought villain might stack off if you hit your flush. You are about 4:1 to hit your flush on the next card. You get 1:1 immediate pot odds to call the 500. If you can get more than 1500 of the remaining stacks in if you hit your flush on the next street, then the call would be OK based on implied odds, not on pot odds. Position matters. If you have position on the guy with the overpair, then you have a better shot at getting the 1500 more (or maybe getting a free card on the next street) than if you are out of position. So, I'd be more inclined to call one street for 500 if I had position, and more inclined to c/f if I was out of position.

And raising in this case would be total spew because you have no fold equity.

i should have hit yes, but im a dumbass and misread your question.

Yes, well sorta. Raise them an ammount(not often mind you, dont want a pattern) that would give them "almost" pot odds, so raising 1k more would be good, they have 12.5 % to hit the turn, they miss that, then play however you think would get you most cash from them (i.e check and raise, check and call, ect...).

You want the best odds possible so you shouldn't raise to reduce your own odds. The only time you raise with a hand that needs to improve is with a semi-bluff. This only works when an opponent may fold. You haven't put what the flop is so we don't know whether raising as a bluff would work.

Also, after the flop an overpair to an underpair is no longer a 4:1 favourite. If you feel that you are a 4:1 dog but are being offered 10:1 pot odds just call.

Reduced pot odds do(es) not necessarily mean reduced EV. And this prolly is relevant mostly in cash games, and barely in tournaments.

Raising for reasons other than( purely obtaining correct express odds) is valid even if you reduce your pot odds. And these other reasons are not limited to Fold Equity.

Ok so the way I understand your question is you have an advantage in odds and want to raise to make your odds equal.

So if you have a flush draw getting 10 to 1....you hit it 20% of the time. So 2 out of ten times you win $10 and 8 out of 10 times you lose $1. Therefore your expected profit is $20-$8 or $12.

But want you want to do is raise to make the odds you are getting 4 to 1.

So now 2 times out of 10 you win $4 and 8 times out of ten you lose $1. Therefore your expected value is $8-$8 or $0.


So what you just did is took a situation where on average you will make money and your opponent will lose money and turned it into a situation where on average you and your opponent will both breakeven.

Are you saying if the pot is 1000 after the flop. You have flush draw, opponent has top pair, and you are first to act. Is it ok to raise as long as it is say under 500 because that would make the pot 2000 on the turn if he called. Sort of a block bet and letting you call a bigger bet from your opponent on the turn to see the river? I am kind of wondering the same question. Seems to me it still lets you be aggressive, he could possibly fold, and gives you more freedom to call a bigger bet on the turn card and still be with good odds.