... I put up a link which described the Levels.

... A move is an action.

Enough of the insults. Your suffering from cognitive dissonance. I have said nothing to offend you. I'm a nice guy.

I think the level stuff is pretty well defined, as in the link given:
https://www.pokernews.com/strategy/m...oker-19458.htm

Level 4 is "what does my opponent think I think he has?"

I agree that the notion of a "move" doesn't mean anything unless defined. You give an example of a move as, for example, "bluffing" which makes it sound like, I guess, a reason for an action, where an action is bet/raise/check/call/fold. Not clear if it's a multi-street strategy tree or just for a single action.

The real problem is that you make specific claims but don't offer specific falsifiable information. You claim to have a "formula" but it's not in evidence. You rarely give anything more than fairly vague advice. I also agree that you alternate between statements that are fairly meaningless and ones that are shrouded in a sense of mystery. It seems more like you're trying to build a cult of personality than help people.

Okay, if a move is an action then my original answer is correct: all "moves" are possible at any level of thinking.

So now you're saying that bluffing isn't a type of move??

Your also saying that I don't ever explain this formula... This formula is a "How to make a poker play" formula. And so you're saying that I don't ever explain how to make the different types of, errrm, plays? Rusty I give one small piece of the puzzle and everyone erupts into craziness. Through the hail of attacks I still carry on answering all of your questions though. I never shy from a question. I've explained how these Levels work for years now. Come on man. This is yet another untrue statement being used to discredit what I describe. This time you are attacking me as a person, but the common goal with alll of these crazy messages is to discredit the logic... And so what does that mean??

Rusty, you can crack this ****! I know you can man!!! Just think it through... You really think all these crazed attacks are normal from these guys? They've asked me about 20 times to define the Levels lol! Do you really think I deserve this hounding from everyone?? I'm trying to teach you some interesting cool stuff and then you yourself say that you think I'm trying to start a cult! Lol, come on, this does not compute. These guys are getting real angry for no good reason, they are making no sense, and, most importantly, none of the abusive guys even got close to answering the question.

It's the subconscious mind which makes it difficult for us to consciously approach any higher Level of thought than that which we are already consciously aware of. This is caused by cognitive dissonance. The mind already holds one strategic formula, and when you go and trust in another, like GTO, the subconscious starts rejecting.

We do use all the Levels all the time... Check this out... We all know that we humans are all capable of empathy, we use it all the time. It usually seems like an effortless ability but there is a process involved. To use empathy we need to put ourselves in the shoes of the person opposite us. We have to think about what they are thinking about. We have to see things from their perspective. Feel what they feel... When we are sat at the poker tables, and we put ourselves in our opponents shoes, and we consider the game from their perspective, when we see what they see, the first thing we see is ourselves. That is how we use Level Three!! It's just empathy.

There are other amazing human abilities that we need to use to make our decisions at Level Three - To actually make a play using this Level we have to consider how the opponent will react AFTER we have made our decision, and so we also need to be able to plan the future. We also need to add chips to our calculations, we need to see whether we will make money from the opponents reaction to our play. To do this we're gonna also need to consider the opponent, Level Two, and ourselves, Level One. It wouldn't be much good knowing how the opponent will react to what it looks like you hold if you don't know what it is you really have. You could be trying to make him fold when you hold the nuts.

I describe this much of the process over half a book, but you asked for a fuller description so I bashed one out.... Cracked it yet? Cheers Yads, your amazing?? A real gentleman with an obscene amount of patience!!?

All types of move are not mate... You couldn't bluff without Level Three.

Can we finally get a hand example???


If not, in to the ignore it goes.

Sure we can, I described how this can occur previously.

I see brand new players bluff all the time. I'm talking about players that have to reference something to determine hand value ranking.

All they know is it's there turn and they can bet or check and they choose bet.

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Brand new players have empathy built in. They have self-awareness, awareness, the ability to plan the future etc. We human beings all already have everything we need to make a play a play at any Level. This is the natural thought process we all use.

You didn't explain how we can deceive our opponent without some idea of how he perceives us??

You cant bluff without Level Three.

Maybe if OP watches this video this thread can stop



and then this one for details



pls don't delete my post

Your argument was that you have to have level 3 to bluff. I said you don't need to know anything about the levels. A novice player understands nothing about ranges or even hand values and can make a bluff. They don't even know what bluff means and they can do it. Now your argument is that all people understand all levels already.

Again how is your teaching useful if everyone already understands it?

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He's done hand histories before in other threads. It's actually pretty pointless for his argument.

He basically gives the same advice a decent live TAG at 100-200 and his advice is littered with the same mumbo jumbo without clarification.

Oh, what you wanted was a hand example! That was what this thread was missing eh...

You see, in my entire book all I do is explain how to make one single Poker decision. At the end of the book I give one example of a decision. If I was to give you the example without the theory it would not make a huge amount of sense. It would only serve to fuel your fire. And if I was to explain everything as I go along, I might as well just give you a copy of the book.

You did give me an ultimatum though, you said that I can either explain to you exactly how every section of the human minds calculative formula works in a real life example... Or... Your going to ignore me??

Goodbye Doctor.

... To bluff you need to have some idea of the opponents perception of you. Which is what is commonly known as Level Three. I didn't name Level Three.

... Understanding the strategic method that everybody uses to calculate plays is valuable in many ways. The thing that adds the most value to this knowledge is the fact that most experienced players go completely mental when they try to approach any higher level than that which they are fully aware, and so you can rinse these guys forever by applying those Levels yourself.

Technically when talking about games a move is any valid strategy defined in the rules of the game. In poker that would be fold, check, call, bet, raise etc.

So really a bluff is just some.bet that is not very well defined outside of river play. Until the river pretty much every hand bets with some sort of equity and desire to fold out other hands that have equity in the pot.

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I just gave you an example of a player that has no clue what information to use to make poker decisions so they have no idea what my perception of them is and they can bluff me. They just simply know their options are bet and check and they choose bet. So someone can make a bluff without knowing level 3 and thus your question and answer from the OP makes no sense without context which is what other people have been trying to tell you.

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