Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Theory General poker theory

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2017, 06:54 AM   #126
Kelvis
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,406
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

All this time is far better spent in writing a solid simulator where you can test all sorts of things.
Kelvis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 08:30 AM   #127
Didace
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Didace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 11,203
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Anybody has any idea what hands should I take at nil poker that have more than 50% equity(same as in poker and which else?)? I would assume all the hands that have more than 45% at poker, they have more than 50 percent equity at nil poker?
Why would you assume that? I have absolutely no idea what the answer is, but I certainly wouldn't assume anything.
Didace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 01:43 PM   #128
blackspoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 128
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
If I do understand what you are saying. Player B should play optimal against all-in?
Player B should call every hand that has more than 50 percent equity vs random(in both cases:nil poker and poker)?

For example: For poker(52-card deck) I pick hands that have more than 50% vs one player… Total devided by number of hands..to get average equity?From this site:
http://www.natesholdem.com/pre-flop-odds.php

Anybody has any idea what hands should I take at nil poker that have more than 50% equity(same as in poker and which else?)? I would assume all the hands that have more than 45% at poker, they have more than 50 percent equity at nil poker?
Yes, this would be too much unnecessary work. I made something a bit different but as good, just on a lot smaller scale.
blackspoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 01:44 PM   #129
blackspoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 128
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

blackspoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 01:47 PM   #130
blackspoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 128
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
-Person A goes all-in every hand.

-Person B calls Person A´s allin with AA or KK in texas holdem

-Person B calls Person A´s allin with AA, KK or QQ in nil holdem


- Odds of having KK or AA as hole cards are(at texas holdem):0,906 %
- Odds of having QQ, KK or AA as hole cards are(at Nil holdem):0,865%
- Odds numbers are aprox the same(favour texas holdem(over nil holdem))-same good card selection.



This is example what happens if Person B will call with his 0,906% best hands preflop(in both games).

NOTE:All the equities that I rounded are in favour of poker(52-card deck). If you see any wrong calculation(or if I missed anything), please feel free to tell. I will be more than happy to correct it. Thank you.
blackspoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 02:31 PM   #131
Didace
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Didace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 11,203
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Why are you still making things up? ie calling ranges.
Didace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 02:36 PM   #132
blackspoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 128
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
I made a bit of a bug in the upper calculation...

Correction of calculations:


NOTE:All the equities that I rounded are in favour of poker(52-card deck). If you see any wrong calculation(or if I missed anything), please feel free to tell. I will be more than happy to correct it. Thank you.
blackspoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 04:01 PM   #133
Kelvis
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,406
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

I don't even.....
Kelvis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 09:43 PM   #134
zachvac
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zachvac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,723
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

wtf how did this get so long? By this logic, nlhe with equity chopping would be the most skill-based game. Or if we don't want to chop up pots nlhe where the hand which is better at the time automatically wins. Does anyone actually imagine that would be a better game? You're using ridiculously bad metrics to justify a preconceived belief that isn't true.
zachvac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 06:06 AM   #135
blackspoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 128
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

I have to say that this is more than enough to determine that nil holdem is more skill-based than texas holdem:

1.)
I wrote a lot about new poker variant.

2.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Calculations of example from post #91

3.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Additions to calculations:

1.)With 25bb each



Diff EV(buy-in):4,218

2.)With 50 bb each




Diff EV(buy-in):18,202

Difference in buy-in(25 vs 50) is multiplier 2. If the poker would be same skill-based as NPoker there would be exactly x2 Diff EV(buy-in)for player B at Nil Poker(difference between A and B). If there is more than x2, the game is considered more skill-based(because both players are making ev+ calls; criteria from example). If this number is lower than 2, this means that Npoker is less skill based than poker.


18,202/4,218= 4,315;4,315 is more than 2


Nil Poker is more skill-based than poker (as holdem).
4.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post

Graph(just the look of the curve part)

5.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post

I do not feel like I have to explain it more(and I will not do that anymore). I believe those upper points has to be enough of evidence for everyone(they are good enough evidence for every person that I talked too). If you do not agree with me it is fine too. I do not care really. I came here to get some opinions(why this game is good, why not and so on; cons and pros; how would you play a game,…; and not to discuss if nil holdem is more skill-based than texas holdem).

Last edited by blackspoker; 07-18-2017 at 06:14 AM.
blackspoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 07:07 AM   #136
Kelvis
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,406
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Ok since your standard of evidence is obviously pretty darn low can we change the title now? Can't believe it still says "most skill based poker game" without it being true.
Kelvis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:30 AM   #137
blackspoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 128
Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

I found this good article.
http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/a-poker-site-should/

Does nil poker fits this?You do not have to answer this. This is just a thought.

It really looks to me that some of you(not everybody included(big sorry for people who are not inlcuded); I think that this comunity is one of the smartest on the internet.) do not care about future of poker. I really can not understand this….

This new variant is not only »my« game, it is everybodies(possible win, win, win, win,..; even if I am wrong, at least I am discussing possible solutions),…Why would I defend this new variant here? I do not need to do that.

This is probably my last serious post in this thread…

Good job trolling me out of serious conversation. This is what some of you want right? Why would I defend something that is potentially good for everybody? You could just tell me that you do not want me to discuss this new poker variant here(and I would never mentioned this new poker variant again). Would have same effect.

This is only my opinion: Do you image how good comercial would be for this site, if we would actually find some possible future poker solution(i believe even discussing this is very good). Does not have to be nil poker,…maybe something else even better, different… But it really looks like some of you do not want this… I really do not understand this…but I do not care either..

Thank you for all the helping comments again. Some of you were really helpfull. I can not thank you enough.
blackspoker is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online