XC few more TPLK and bet a bit fewer bluffs, mostly to protect our betting range against raises.

Really interesting stuff doc...

Currently im playing around with piosolver free version and plugging in some ranges for both hero & villain and seeing how the EV's work & what the "optimal" strat would be in general.

This is a good way to find leaks in your opp. strat to exploit right?
By doing some off-table work and figuring out the EV's or just in general what his strat/tendencies are going to be in a certain spot?

Ik this is totally different from what you are doing here (it seems like u are constructing balanced ranges) and figuring out the best way to play your range vs. villain's range in a certain spot.

lololol cool stuff


Yeah here I was just analyzing range vs range scenario using streetmath pre publicsolverera, used to do it a lot back then, not anymore.

I mean yeah, just doing stuff like this with streetmath or solver will increase you knowledge, and then you just use it to your advantage to exploit ppl.



PS. Also like how Doofus Krondelly focused on stuff that was super irrelevant in the thread.

This looks very interesting and is something I would like to get into. What software package are you using to do this analysis?

thx

Anybody know the name of the software he was using to analyse this spot? It looks like some sort of GTO software?

thx

Can't remember the name, but it was the same as Will Tipton used in his book/thread or something. You can do the same with combining 2 Flopzillas with HoldEq.

Bumping this awesome thread again ^^

Found a video explaining/illustrating something very similar to what doc is doing... range construction/range vs. range analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk4kWoA6UuI

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Questions regarding the vid... (took a 1-2 month hiatus from poker just getting back into it again so sorry if im asking the same questions doc and sorry if they seem confusing/rambly)

-So in the beginning the OP of the video mentions that checking your entire range OOP on a 249r board CUvBu is going to be more +EV/a better strat then splitting your range, what does betting or checking your entire range in a certain spot accomplish again and what does it mean OTF here?

-When you look at range construction it's easy to sort the top and bottom portions of your ranges in certain spots and obviously it gets tough/unclear to decide where parts of the middle portion of your range goes (fold, call, even raise?)... so do we use MDF or just examine what villain's range/strat/tendencies looks like in a certain spot to decide what we do with certain hands?

I think the benefit of doing something whether it's betting or checking with your entire range on certain boards, in certain situations, is just that it simplifies your strategy.

I think OP did some interesting work. I think it might be a bit overkill but it's cool to see how you work it out. Something to consider instead of just overall equity is nutted distribution. Since MP has QQ+ more often he has the stronger range if you look at the more nutted hands as overpair+ MP has 18 more combos of those combos. I wonder if MPs continuing range vs a flop raise includes much 7x maybe just A7cc, 87cc, 76cc. Considering that, raising 66 seems similar to raising 77.

It simplifies your strategy, if it's a spot where you dont lose much EV by just doing like 100% check or 100% bet, it's usually good idea to do it.

So basically you need to have a spot where not a big% of your hands need to bet for you to use this strategy. This board is not that good of an example, as it's actually quite volatile board for middling hands like TP, TT-JJ etc, that kinda want to bet, but probably smaller. Solve only has 70% sizing so it kinda diminshes this strategy.

It's also a board where we as a CO have ton of hands that want to get a lot of money in, so betting is kinda good idea. BUT if our overall range is weakish compared to BU range, BU actually stabs quite a high frequency (55% in in this sim), so we can actually just do ton of XR:ing with our valuehands, and we actually get more money int compared to just betting.


Welll... Dunno. MDF is kinda flawed otf esp when board is volatile, rangeadvantages etc. But mostly you just think about the single handcombos and think what they want to do, does the hand need protection? do we have valuebets? how many valuebets and how often we get ****ed up on runouts etc. And then start visualizing your ranges by single combos etc and you suddenly have a quite of a good idea what your overall strategy looks like. When we choose to bet or check 100% of our range, it becomes quite easy actually. But yeah you kinda need to def certain frequency or you are exploitable, but it doesn't need to be exact. So usually you have like certain amount of clear defense, and then you still need to def more of the breakeven hands, and then you just yolodefend some of them and usually have some type of bookkeping in your head. Like def all A-highs with X+ kicker and all stronger hands than that and we have around correctish def.

Thanks guys really helpful.

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Also you mention sizing, so your saying you size bets based on the what the majority of your range wants to do on this board texture right like if it needs protection you bet half pot etc... this is a exploitative strat or... is the EV just the same for bigger or smaller sizings? (sorry for off-topic question)

Ye basically usually there are certain or few type of sizings majority of our range wants to bet. On most flop spots we sacrifice less EV with using one sizing, on turns and rivers it can be mandatory to split sizings. So again it's one of those, if most of our range wants to do something, we just simplify the strategy to fit into that as we don't lose too much overall EV by simplifying it, and also prevent us from being exploitable by having very exploitable ranges.


I'd say that more often having multiple sizings is more of a exploitable thing than having 1.

So I'm not sure how I found this now, but been studying more recently and trying to come up with a general strategy (which I haven't done in years and was away from the game for a bit). I love that I stumbled across this, it's nearly exactly what I've been trying to construct, old school pen and paper. It's pretty difficult to search for this specifically and find what you're looking for.

If you're still here, how exactly did you come up with the flop bet bluff/value ratio of 30/18 with this board and our range?

Also, did you ever find that skype group you were looking for?

Flopzilla, CREV, Piosolver, GTOrb etc...

Go into micro stakes forum there should be a skype group thread thing at the top

GL

waiting for a new tldr thread of 753tt flop and a thread for every other combination/position. way to go

I enjoy writing it down and working it out to have a better understanding to start. Messing around with pio and other software can give you a good idea of what you're supposed to do in situations but I want to know why we get to some solutions that I'm unsure of so far

Thank you though, I'll figure it out I suppose lol