There is a pretty thorough hand-by-hand analysis of Ivey's and some other top pro's short stacked play in a high-stakes SNG style tourney in Kill Everyone. For what it's worth, Ivey won.

Yerh lol Ivey pwns

A 1bb game he would pwn my soul

I'd personally like to be equally good at all mainstream poker games.

Holdem, Omaha (hi and hi lo), Razz, Stud (hi and hi lo)

I just hit a great cash on stars a few days, I'ma cash out some dough and buy like 4 books.

All 2+2 btw.

First time I've ever said I'ma btw.

I skipped over most of the thread, but there's definitely more money is multi-tabling NLHE and LHE that the other options. Some of the other games, esp stud, aren't really conducive to that. Also remember some run slower. I'd comment on PLO but eh.

And you have to use some common sense here, if any poker game were easy money everyone would be playing that variant.

You'll always have better games than others, take my word for it. I think some people are just wired for some games and not for others.

"You'll always have better games than others, take my word for it. I think some people are just wired for some games and not for others." - Gonso

I definitely agree with you there. I'm a good NL holdem player, especially tourney play, decent limit Holdem, decent at the HORSE games except for Omaha hi lo split, I ****ing suck hard ass at Omaha hi lo split. Hard ****ing game for me.

I really hope that stud/8 and Omaha/8 do not go mainstream.... Those games are a nit grinder's paradise. Although the player base exploded beyond proportion for NLHE (always good for the game), the learning curve went up a little higher because of all the resources that are out there. The hi/lo split limit games are great, because so many players are clueless.

Where do you play these? Right now on FTP the biggest Stud 8 game going is 1/2...

PokerStars has more stud action at 1/2+. They also have way more full-ring PLO action.

HU sng's

hu limit... the better player is guaranteed to win period, and for all u nl fishies, the rock solid player is always the fish in hu limit

"I really hope that stud/8 and Omaha/8 do not go mainstream.... Those games are a nit grinder's paradise. The hi/lo split limit games are great, because so many players are clueless." - Hardball 47


See, that's what I'm thinking. It does kind of seem to be the case. I see so many clueless players at Omaha hi lo, they're so easy to spot. All they do is raise and hope to win the pot. They have no clue how to play the game. I totally suck at it, but I can tell they have no clue.

That's why I want to get really good at HORSE, really have an edge on the average player throughout multiple games. And you get these unobservant players getting totally lost when Razz changes to Stud, great potential to win there.

Not this.

In theory I would say NL O8 as your edge over the weakest players will be largest but it is really a hard question to answer as it all depends on the player pool. In practice nobody plays NL 08, I would say the people making the most profit in poker at the moment are shorthanded NL multitablers but that could change depending on player pools in the future.

And also wtf at Ivey not knowing ICM? It isn't some big secret that only online sng grinders are aware of.

Stars. There's less bad players on FTP at these games.

IMO

PLO
Razz
2-7 TD
O/8 Limit
Mid stakes LHE
NLHE

A lot of the NLHE full ring grinders can multi table 12+ tables. This usually is a more nitty style. This means they get into a lot of standard or no brainer situations and can thus play more tables. Their hourly rate could be pretty high. I'v only really played NLHE and a bit of limit. So I'm wondering if a PLO player could do the same as this? or do you need to be much more observant and or focused on each table?

I've seen posts from players who suggested they would have to play like 25% fewer PLO tables, or something like that.

Partly due to the fact that you're playing more hands in PLO. But also it's probably true that observation and focus is probably more important in PLO, especially postflop.

When approaching HORSE, in terms of studying it to improve and get good, I would assume it would be best to focus on one game at a time. Get good at each individual game, then bring it all together.

Thoughts on this assumption?


This is not the way I've approaches HORSE so far, I play a bit of HORSE here and there, and probably shouldn't approach it this way.

From an EV point of view it's terrible to just jump into HORSE. Study each game individually first.

Of course, it is fun to jump into the game for a change of pace.


My advice, at least be semi-competent at the hi/lo games, cuz this tends to be the biggest leak among newbies.

I definitely know how to play the games, the hi lo games, but I'm not that great at them, and haven't read any literature on them.

Omaha hi lo is probably my weakest game. I'm not the best stud player either (hi).

It also helps to keep in mind that you have to switch up playing styles and hand valuations in each game. Many guys approach each game with the NLHE mindset, and lose big as a result. These guy play O8 pre-flop the same way they play hold'em. Pocket AA, KK, and QQ are ram-and-jam hands no matter what else they're holding. And they get all pissed when someone cracks their AA with 9 10 2 3 for a scoop.

Just being mildly competent at each game will usually be enough at a lower level mixed game to take the $. And like others have mentioned, the hi/lo games are where you can really suck the blood out of the fish.

After screwing around a bit yesterday I think that a good contender for fishiest game on Full Tilt is certainly their NLO8 games. Is there any literature on this game? Every Omaha high/low book I know of only deals with the limit version of the game.

Matusow says in this video that NLH cash games will die in two years.

http://www.cardplayer.com/tv/33078

PLO H/L
Stud H/L
Omaha H/L

If u want the biggest edge over opponents(forgetting availability, stakes, and multitabling) thats my list. There the hardest to play really well/learn.

If u want to make the most money per an hour online then
NLH
Limit
PLO

Without a doubt looking at stakes available, the ability to multi-table easily heres the money makers.

Mason Malmuth has an article saying Stud games give the expert the biggest edge especially if the ante is small.

Razz should get a mention for being real easy, would be easy enough to multi-table and plenty of bad players but once again the availablity just isnt there past 5/10 online

Only true against bad opponents, who are especially bad at hi/lo games.

However, if you're a good player against mediocre/okay players, high-only games will give you the biggest edge.

Although the basic strategy of hi/lo games are usually misunderstood by newbs/bad players, the higher-level aspects of hi/lo games are generally less complex than their high-only counterparts.

This is especially the case with LO8 vs. PLO high -- LO8 is the least complex, wheras PLO high is the most complex. Although PLO8 is probably more complex than LO8, it is probably simpler than PLO, NLHE and Stud High.