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 06-26-2012, 07:52 PM #16 veteran   Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,336 Re: A little help with math plz?? If the pot is P before villain bets and if hero has to call an all in bet of B, then Pot Odds = (P+B)/B. The card equity needed to make the call +EV must be at least B/(P+2B). This follows from the basic all-in EV equation for a call, EV = eq*(P+B) - (1-eq)*B = eq*(P+2B) - B, by setting EV to 0 and solving for eq.
06-26-2012, 08:30 PM   #17
old hand

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,337
Re: A little help with math plz??

Quote:
 Originally Posted by statmanhal If the pot is P before villain bets and if hero has to call an all in bet of B, then Pot Odds = (P+B)/B.

Just to confirm, this is what i said, as P+B = 12.50 (where "P" is the pot BEFORE villain's bet, as you said) and B = 7.65 here.

06-27-2012, 12:06 AM   #18
veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,336
Re: A little help with math plz??

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rockstar Just to confirm, this is what i said, as P+B = 12.50 (where "P" is the pot BEFORE villain's bet, as you said) and B = 7.65 here.
Yup. For this situation, the equations are pretty simple and for some, perhaps easier to assimilate than a word description. At least that's how it is for me.

 06-27-2012, 12:13 AM #19 veteran     Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Stanford, CA USA Posts: 3,322 Re: A little help with math plz?? In this case all that matters to know in the future is that in such spots when you have nut flush draw plus bottom pair you have at least 40% and usually 45-46% vs a range of great hands the pusher or strong betting player has that include sets, 2p, overpairs some times (mostly AA or KK and not always good players stack off like that if real deep), multiple draws of their own even a rare top pair top kicker risky play etc In other words its basically almost always ok to call the all in or push (even better pushing unless pot is very small) yourself and have some fold equity because the very little distance from 50% that you need is covered by the already existing pot so you dont need to be over 50% you can be even less than 50% if not very far lower and still enjoy a great EV for the situation that is very cool spot to use all your money for. However notice that if you are not holding the nut flush draw and an overcard to the board plus the small pair but instead some lesser flush draw and the highest card we have is not higher than the top rank of the flop and the opponent is not so wild to lose all stack with top pair top kicker but more likely to be sets and 2p and sometimes AA here or a strong combo draw then you are not looking as good if the last bet is much larger than the existing pot already. We could drop to even 30-35%. Notice however that with top flush draw and the pair even if the guy has only sets and 2p and some rare AA and nothing else (ultra tight) you definitely have still 40% and can call most situations. Now change the hand to K4s though to see what i said above.
 06-27-2012, 01:45 AM #20 potpoor Guest   Posts: n/a Re: A little help with math plz?? One way of looking at the problem: Pot odds are the ratio of the present pot(before you call the bet) to the amount of bet you are considering putting in. Expected value is your equity times the size of the pot after you call the bet.
 06-27-2012, 02:21 AM #21 enthusiast   Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 83 Re: A little help with math plz?? So what's the 7.65/20 type of equation good for?
06-27-2012, 03:40 AM   #22
Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 5,663
Re: A little help with math plz??

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Always Sleepy So what's the 7.65/20 type of equation good for?
that gives minimum equity he needs to get it in (38%)

7.65/12.5 gets you the pot odds he needs to get it in, although it's backwards. you want 12.5 / 7.65, which is 1.63. so he needs to be better than a 1.63 to 1 dog to get it in. which is the same as having 38% equity.

06-27-2012, 10:10 AM   #23
potpoor
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Posts: n/a
Re: A little help with math plz??

Quote:
 Originally Posted by potpoor One way of looking at the problem: Pot odds are the ratio of the present pot(before you call the bet) to the amount of bet you are considering putting in. Expected value is your equity times the size of the pot after you call the bet.
If the expected value is less than your bet you are losing that amount. If more then you are winning that amount.

06-27-2012, 07:41 PM   #24
veteran

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Posts: 2,336
Re: A little help with math plz??

Quote:
 Originally Posted by potpoor Expected value is your equity times the size of the pot after you call the bet.
Not quite for the way EV and equity are usually defined. For an all-in call situation, EV is your equity (win probability) times the size of the pot after you call the bet less the amount of the bet.

EV = expected amount of winnings less expected amount of loss

= Eq *(Pot + Bet) - (1-Eq)*Bet, where Pot is amount before villain bets

= Eq*(Pot + 2*Bet) - Bet

= Eq *(Pot after you call) - Bet

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