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Old 05-02-2017, 08:04 PM   #1
stargazer7
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HUSNG Minimum Defense Frequency (From Upswing Poker)

I am trying to develop my HUSNG game, and I found an article from upswing (not sure if I can link, so I won't) that says for min raises you should be defending "at least 85% of hands with a 3 bet frequency of around 20%" from the BB, and against a 3X we should be defending "around 60% of hands with a 3 bet frequency around 22%".

My questions are:
1. How did they come to these defense numbers? I'm assuming they're talking about min defense freqs. but 85% seems higher than the actual minimum defense frequency. I understand that MDF cannot be exactly translated this way on earlier streets as a lot of other factors apply, but it seems high, and why would it be higher than the raw MDF as we are still out of position with a weak/wide range?
2. How did/do they determine what percentage of our range should be used as 3 bets vs calls? I'm assuming they just found the hands they thought were good as "value" 3 bets and then balanced it with some bluffs in an appropriate frequency, but how exactly did they/should I determine this frequency?


Thanks so much!
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Old 05-03-2017, 12:31 AM   #2
Brokenstars
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Re: HUSNG Minimum Defense Frequency (From Upswing Poker)

because it is +EV

We have solvers that can do this stuff HU now.
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Old 05-03-2017, 05:50 AM   #3
stargazer7
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Re: HUSNG Minimum Defense Frequency (From Upswing Poker)

I'm not doubting that it is +EV, I am asking for the theory as to WHY it is +EV, and what is is making these numbers correct vs other frequencies? Thanks
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Old 05-03-2017, 01:09 PM   #4
icoon
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Re: HUSNG Minimum Defense Frequency (From Upswing Poker)

1. If you play MDF from BB, SB can raise any2 and be guaranteed at least 0ev, even if he never wins the post postflop. In reality any hand has a chance to win the pot postflop, so his real EV will be >0 for any hand. So you should defend wider otherwise he prints money raising 100% of his hands. The 85% is just the number of hands thats +ev to defend in the equilibrium. Only way to find this number is in practice through trial and error, MDF is useless before the river

2. Playing a lot of hands and comparing the EVs of flatting and 3betting with all hands. Or they took the solution from a solver. The way u describe could be used in the past to get a rough estimate of the ranges, but now there are solvers that can give u the exact solution. There is no way to get the detailled numbers with reasoning or theorization. Hands are +ev because they are +ev
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:10 PM   #5
stargazer7
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Re: HUSNG Minimum Defense Frequency (From Upswing Poker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by icoon View Post
1. If you play MDF from BB, SB can raise any2 and be guaranteed at least 0ev, even if he never wins the post postflop. In reality any hand has a chance to win the pot postflop, so his real EV will be >0 for any hand. So you should defend wider otherwise he prints money raising 100% of his hands. The 85% is just the number of hands thats +ev to defend in the equilibrium. Only way to find this number is in practice through trial and error, MDF is useless before the river

2. Playing a lot of hands and comparing the EVs of flatting and 3betting with all hands. Or they took the solution from a solver. The way u describe could be used in the past to get a rough estimate of the ranges, but now there are solvers that can give u the exact solution. There is no way to get the detailled numbers with reasoning or theorization. Hands are +ev because they are +ev

Thank you so much!
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:19 PM   #6
icoon
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Re: HUSNG Minimum Defense Frequency (From Upswing Poker)

Good luck, I think theres some decent free husng vids on youtube if you want to develop further or look in the lobby and watch some highstakes games to see the way the best players are playing
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Old 05-04-2017, 01:36 PM   #7
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Re: HUSNG Minimum Defense Frequency (From Upswing Poker)

Would you send link in DM? Or title in here so I can google.
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