I noticed that a few people had this number in their HUDs, and I was wondering how one would use WTSD. I play NLHE FR. But even for 6 max, if your VPIP is high or you play a lot of speculative hands in multi-player pots, your WTSD should be low. But it could also be low because the player is super nitty. And if you are a calling station the number would be high, or it could be high because you don't play a lot of hands. The stat seems to be a mixed bag - or is there anything deeper than what I mentioned? Just wondering if anyone used this as in indicator for bluff frequency, giving or receiving, or anything else useful that I'm missing. Thanks.

The way I use it is (I play 6max NL though) like this: if the player has high WTSD, you should not bluff that player but valuebet more hands. If he has low WTSD then it means he will often fold on the river (or before), so that you you should bluff more often, and valuebet less hands, since when he does call he will on average have a pretty strong hand.

Yep, well put. Also consider WTSD for implied odds. You wanna set mine with those pocket threes? Maybe your implied odds or bad. Or maybe they are through the roof. Consult WTSD to help make your decision.

I like WTSD and W$SD combined, because these stats converge too slowly to be usefull when you don't have a lot of hands on someone.

When someone has a very high WTSD but also a very high W$SD he likely has been catching a lot of good hands.

If someone has a high WTSD with a low W$SD, he's probably a station.

If someone has a low WTSD and a high W$SD you bluff him untill he shows interrest, because he'll have the nuts.

Both numbers low is a rarity, I play them the same as anyone with a low WTSD.

Low+Low is probably only going to be like that in a short sample, I would interpret it as someone nitty that has been running bad.

Low+High = nitty running good, same thing there, would pretty much only be possible in a short sample.

Very informative

what % would you characterize as high?

I have a HUD that I wrote, and I usually something different than pokertracker's WTSD, I call it WTSD_RAW. Basically, poker tracker's number is a percentage of the times they saw 4th st or the flop, that they went to showdown. My number is the percentage of times that they were dealt a hand, that they went to showdown. If you use pokertracker's number you MUST consider their VPIP also. A tight player will have a pretty high WTSD in poker tracker, because they start with good hands to start with. I don't know the numbers for holdem but in razz the number could easily be 30-40%. If a player with vpip of 50 has a 30% WTSD rate in PT, then he is going to showdown a LOT - 15 out of 100 hands (a tight player with a 30% WTSD goes to showdown more like 6 or 7 out of 100 hands)

I just looked in my DB, and sorted all players by WTSD and I made a few interesting observations.
* All the short stackers had the highest WTSD, which seem obvious now, but hadn't occurred to me before I looked at the data. So in addition to making some sort of adjustment for VPIP, you probably need to make some sort of adjustment for stack size.
* The biggest losers were those that had the highest WTSD - there are good shortstackers, so I suppose most fish also tend to play too many hands and call too much.
* The biggest winers were the ones in the middle of the range.

People who play a lot of multiway pots (instead of heads-up pots) should also have a low WTSD, but I'm not sure if this tells you anything about their post-flop behavior. I'll start looking at WTSD more when I play (more for curiosity than anything else), but I'm still not sure of it's usefulness.

Nice stat. Could be quite usefull. In holdem I think we overestimate this though.

Of course someone with a higher vpip will have kicker trouble more often, but he'll have top pair and middle pair almost as often. Except if someone's range is very tight (consisting of a lot of big pocket pairs) most preflop ranges will flop something about the same amount of the time and K9 still beats AQ on a KQxxx board.

We get dealt two cards out of the seven we end up with, which is quite meaningless compared to when we see a flop and we know five out of seven cards. What we go to showdown with is (and should be) mainly a function of what we flop, and less so of what we get dealt. So WTSD is actually quite usefull as it is imo.