I'm always watching vids/ reading articles where a coach is constructing an opponent's range and speaking as if its obvious that villain is never flatting with xx here or couldn't be continuing with xx there because it would have been 3bet pre…or some such statements like these.

This is all new to me as I haven't been studying too long. But like today for example…I'm playing AQo from CO. I get flatted by the BTN who is playing 20/17/7 over about 100 hands. Additionally, villain should think my range is pretty A heavy because I've played about 17/15 since I sat down. So do you think A8s is gonna be in their flatting range? I doubt it. But there is was. That was his hand. I know its just one hand, its meaningless.

My question is, how valuable is ranging vs unknown players where the difference in hand equity between most hands in reasonable pre flop range is quite small and our range reading margin of error is actually very wide? Just feel like I'm putting so much time and effort into this skill and its at best, very very very inaccurate.

But I suppose such is the nature of poker. Even massive skill edges are worth marginal profits.

I guess I'm just wondering if someone can give me a different way to look at it. Something a bit more optimistic.

Getting reads on the population tendencies is very useful, so that you have an understanding of the "typical" ranges that your opponents play. When someone shows up with something unexpected, you make a note on it. i.e. You note that *that player* sometimes calls with suited aces in BTNvCO, even if most regs don't, so that next time you're in a hand with that guy, you have a better understanding of his range composition. It's just as noteworthy (although not as valuable) as taking a note on someone that doesn't 3-bet QQ in BBvBTN or something like that.

I'm not a big hold'em player these days but I actually don't see why this is especially surprising. Let's say you steal 25% from c/o which seems reasonably in line with your stats. A8s is pretty much exactly flipping with that range.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

489,718,944 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
25%	50.83%	233,784,386	30,299,098
ah8h	49.17%	225,635,460	30,299,098

Doesn't 3betting just isolate the portion of your range that he is trailing to? Or are you implying that he should fold? It seems to me that calling should be better than folding with a positional advantage, esp if the blinds are weak or passive.

Anyway the point really isn't that I know that this is a good call, its more that somebody with at least a somewhat reasonable approach to NL might in fact show up with this in their range. Make sure that you allow for the possibility that their range is somewhat wider, narrower or just differently structured than you might think until you have the actual reads to get really specific.

Its especially important that you don't decide they "can never have hand x" and then make a huge river call against someone who otherwise hasn't seemed to bluff much. You've got to ask yourself which is more likely: you making a mistake in your ranging or his acting dramatically against type

This is it... Reading the ranges of these players is huge as they rarely mix it up and leave lots of room for exploitation. However, you cant presume them to all be rational. Each individual villain is different and you need to find out what each is doing. This guy seems to like chasing those nuts flushes. Write a note and rinse him.

Calling A8s BTNvsCO is rational.
Instead of thinking They never do something with xx here you could say They less often do... and everything of the videos then applies.
Also imagine a flop A8x which very likely was what happened. Is it so important whether V has A8s against your AQ? It is only 1 or 2 combos depended on suits. More important is whether V has ATo for call etc...
Your reads will be always very inaccurate, poker is a game of small edges, just use reads and knowledge you have and dont be surprised it does not work 100%.

I didn't actually see we were on the C/O... Calling A8s on the button will usually be a bad move in my book, even against a C/O open...

My point still stands. You can't expect these guys to be rational, you just have to work out what each individual villain is doing

How good is your range, tells how good is your technique. You range mainly before you take a seat. But especially in tournaments, you will play very situationally, that includes a lot of stuffs other than technique; like logic, psychology, experience, stats (HUD).

Sometimes I find making my decision in terms of absolute hand strength on the river can be helpful. My desired hand strength in a spot will depend on the player type a lot. Sometimes TPTK won't be strong enough for 3 streets (esp. calling). I would say regs at micros you need to be very careful calling big bets turn and river. Fish will always be unpredictable but I assume they don't bluff and respect aggression unless I see they can barrel with no equity or severely overplay their hand strength.

+1 summed up accurately

People get very confused about this. You actually can play a good strategy against a bad player and it will still win money.

If you just play against your opponent AS IF THEY PLAYED GOOD and gave them reasonable ranges at each decision point you will do just fine. Yes, you will run into some stupid hand that they are not supposed to have and it will end up costing you in that particular hand but that's fine because they have to lose more money than that in the long run in order to occasionally have just the right hand at the right time to do damage to you.

If a player plays a bad strategy it will lose money to a good strategy.. that's what a bad strategy is BY DEFININITION!

(just understand you can also make more money than this by figuring out your opponents strategy and adjusting to exploit it)

This is what hand reading is; "The ability to give your opponent two choices; lose money by way of making silly mathematical errors that cost him EV and give that EV to players involved in the hand with him/her or give you information about his or her hand by making reasonable decisions with it."

Yeah this is probably true of course. I posted this after a session where I kept shoveling $ into pots based on my assumed ranges villains might have and they kept showing up with maniacal holdings. But of course in the long run ranging, even inaccurately, is going to be better than blindly guessing what your opponent has.