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a home game payout dilemma

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08-20-2014 , 07:03 PM

p2 dog, p2

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 7,536

25 chips $25 buyin, every chip is $1 dollar. Usually 7 to 10 people, once it gets to top 3 people cash in their chips for $1 each. Please convince these two guys that this is a cash game. There is no bubble factor, play for chip ev.

They are set in stone this is a tournament

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08-20-2014 , 07:38 PM

DarkMagus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 8,391

ftp had something similar, dunno if it's still there, called a cash-out tournament. although i think cashing out was optional and there were still payouts for the people who wanted to keep playing.

anyway it seems like your only question is whether your format should be called a cash game or a tournament. a) it's kind of a mix of both, b) this doesn't have anything to do with poker theory, and c) who really cares?

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08-20-2014 , 08:13 PM

LazyAce

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,342

This is definitely more of a tournament than a cash game. The only thing about it resembling a cash game is the fact that $1 in chips is equal to $1 in real money.

What if your friends changed the chip stack to $50 and made every $2 in chips = exactly $1?

If i remember correctly, this is precisely how Stars fifty fifty tournaments worked though I never played them. They were like dons except the payouts were relative to your final stack.

Similarly, if you played a HU match for cash with the rule that you can't cash out until there is one player left I would call this a HUSNG. Wouldn't you?

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08-20-2014 , 10:30 PM

heehaww

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5,081

Quote:

Originally Posted by LazyAce

if you played a HU match for cash with the rule that you can't cash out until there is one player left I would call this a HUSNG. Wouldn't you?

If you also couldn't top of your stack when it got low then yeah I agree, even if the blinds don't increase. Being forced to play with a short stack makes it a sng.

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08-20-2014 , 11:03 PM

50 pence

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 199

There is a bubble factor no? 4th place gets nothing, 3th can cash out so 4th place is bubble. It all sounds like a tournament to me.

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08-21-2014 , 01:08 AM

TakenItEasy

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,767

It's called a freeze out which a cross between a cash game and tournament. i.e. no reloading or cashing out (before the end) but no blind levels or payout schedule either.

Definitely should play like a cash game. e.g. No point in surviving to third if you only have $1 where as in a tournament, 1 chip would still get bottom money.

Theoretically equivalent to a winner take all event which should also play like a cash game because it's all the chips for all the cash.

Another words, there's no difference between CEV and $EV in your game.

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08-21-2014 , 01:24 AM

TakenItEasy

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,767

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50 pence

There is a bubble factor no? 4th place gets nothing, 3th can cash out so 4th place is bubble. It all sounds like a tournament to me.

You can call it a bubble but it shouldn't have any bearing on your play. You shouldn't be passing on +EV spots just to try and survive which is the typical situation with a tournament that has a payout schedule.

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08-21-2014 , 01:31 AM

TakenItEasy

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,767

I should add that there are freeze-out tournaments with payout schedules.

you can also call a cash game a freeze-out and pay cash value for chips.

Technically speaking the term freeze-out just means no reloading.

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08-21-2014 , 02:05 AM

DoGGz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 17,315

What you want to call it doesn't matter. In terms of how you should play, you should play hands exactly as you would in an equivalent cash game.

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08-21-2014 , 10:52 AM

#10

p2 dog, p2

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 7,536

Ty guys this is all I needed. I was trying to tell them it's a cash game. I agree it has a tourney structure and I'm not even sure the guys arguing knew what we were arguing about. my main point was there is no incentive in getting 3rd, our only goal is to maximize are chip expectation every hand, which is not the case in tournaments.

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