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Do you concur? #TPTKproblems Do you concur? #TPTKproblems
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10-28-2014 , 08:33 PM
#1
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chinoxl
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Is raising in position with top pair on the turn ok?

For example we hold AK on a A289 two tone flop vs a player who cbets 50% of turns

Would raising turn IP and checking back river a OK play?

Or

Call all three streets no matter the riv, any thoughts?
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10-29-2014 , 05:14 AM
#2
TakenItEasy
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Was the A on board part of the FD? It makes a big difference since you could stack an ace+FD but if your too deep you could get outplayed by such a hand as well.

This is highly dependent on your opponents habits and your own image.

If you bluff this spot, I don't mind a raise but I think just call and getting 1 more bet in on the river is a bit more standard.

A lot depends on the players 3 barrel frequencies as well since you will lose 1 bet if he's planning on barreling the river.
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10-29-2014 , 12:36 PM
#3
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@takeniteasy what do you mean by bluff this spot? Would raising the turn with that hand turn my hand into a bluff?
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10-29-2014 , 01:52 PM
#4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinoxl
@takeniteasy what do you mean by bluff this spot? Would raising the turn with that hand turn my hand into a bluff?
no but bluffing this spot in past hands makes it more of a value play in this hand
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10-29-2014 , 02:57 PM
#5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakenItEasy
no but bluffing this spot in past hands makes it more of a value play in this hand
When we bluff this spot is bombing river almost always a must? Unless draws come in, and trying to fold out top pair hands...hmmm I guess that's when it matters if that ace is part of a flush draw like you said huh

Further thinking about it seems like deep stack moves
Last edited by chinoxl; 10-29-2014 at 03:02 PM.
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10-29-2014 , 04:59 PM
#6
TakenItEasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinoxl
When we bluff this spot is bombing river almost always a must? Unless draws come in, and trying to fold out top pair hands...hmmm I guess that's when it matters if that ace is part of a flush draw like you said huh

Further thinking about it seems like deep stack moves
I was initially thinking that this could be a leveling spot given your read that villain 2 barrels the turn at 50%. They can sometimes stack off light with just a decent ace.

Bottom line is that you need your opponent to assign you a decent bluffing range to get the extra value for this turn raise. After looking again, I just don't see that many bluffs that would seem to fit this board.

Standard is still just more correct despite the villains image I think. Just call and getting 1 more bet on a blank river.

Sorry, I haven't played online since BF and I'm a bit rusty at doing hand reviews.
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10-29-2014 , 05:14 PM
#7
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@takeniteasy don't worry about it, I play for very little money just wondering if I could raise turns with one pair type hands in spots where villains barrel draws OTT in position or out.

The usual x/c flop xx turn lead river doesn't work oop vs villans who fire twice
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10-30-2014 , 01:16 PM
#8
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To be able to answer that question perfectly is kinda hard because theres a lot of things that can influence on what the optimal play is.

Who is the agressor? What are the positions on the table, effective stacks? Different positions/stacks may have different implications on what ranges both of you get to the turn with. Previous dynamics and stats may also influence that. You'd probably want to look at his range and your own range that get to that spot to have a idea if you can confortably raise turn for value and bet some rivers/check back others. Calling three streets is quite dependant on the those things as well.
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10-30-2014 , 07:08 PM
#9
Neone
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In general,Tptk with ak holds up well enough to play more streets with. A raise on turn is fancy and without reads/history gets calls from better hands while losing value on worse Ax.

Calling all streets except when opponent shows some unusual strength is not likely a badline.

With low spr bet less to play more streets etc...
Last edited by Neone; 10-30-2014 at 07:17 PM.
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11-01-2014 , 07:27 PM
#10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neone
A raise on turn is fancy and without reads/history gets calls from better hands while losing value on worse Ax.
Is it really that fancy if the turn makes the board dangerous tho? How often will a villain flop a draw and complete on the turn? If I raise turn and he shoves my top pair is usually good 75% of the time?

If villain is trying to take me off top pair when he gains more equity on the turn (that's if he knows how to double barrel) depending on stack sizes once he makes the second cbet he is committed I think...guess that's where reads history come in huh
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