Hi guys!

Thanks for reading, I have been thinking about these few questions for awhile and would like to seek help.

Here we go..

What should calling frequencies do?

Assuming we called preflop IP and have 30 combos in our check/calling range.

If V's cbetting% is 50%, is it right to assume we should call 50% of our 30 combos?

And if we were to call 15 combos, how do we profit by calling to defend?

Do we even profit at all? Are we defending just to deny V from profiting by betting a certain % against us, just enough so that V couldn't profit from our fold %?

Please advise!

Thanks in advance!!

If you called preflop IP, you can't check/call postflop.

The % that you should call vs CB isn't directly connected to the % opponent is CBetting.

It doesn't matter how many % V is CBetting in, what matters is his range and the bet size when he does it.

But yes, you should usually defend around 50%.

You are profiting with your calls, since their EV of calling > EV of folding (0).

Hey ZKesic!

Good to hear from you

I'm going to sleep now, shall digest what you have said later in the day

Thanks! ^^

In the long run, your fold to c-bet frequency might be around 50% (or a little lower) on average, but positions, bet-sizes and board textures make it vary a lot. A player in position on the button can float much more often than the player in the BB, who tends to check-fold at a fairly high frequency. (Being in position allows you to realize more equity, or grab a bigger slice of the pot).

If you aren't folding much in position to CB, opponent will adjust by CBetting very value heavy oop, with pretty much no bluffs. This will make your IP floats less profitable. So I don't think fold % should vary that much.


Edit: But since V is oop with range disadvantage in these spots, his bluffs may still have higher EV to CB than x/F even though we aren't folding much vs CB, so I guess it makes sense that IP would fold a bit less vs CB than oop player. My bad.

^ I think the BB can check-fold more often because he gets better pot odds pre. If you call a 3x open on the BTN, you need to get back more than 3bb from the pot to break even, so you sort of have to 'fight' over more pots (by floating etc). If you're in the BB, you only need to get back more than 2.5bb to break even, so you can 'give up' on more pots. Especially since the BB calls pre with a weaker range than anyone, the player in position tends to grab a bigger share of the dead money against the BB than his raw equity would indicate.

Hi guys!

Good Morning

Thanks for the replies, ps was working on the weekends.

Will go through and digest the knowledge shared

Thanks once again

ps my bad

Oh ya I read something about what you guys mentioned here.

Assuming V cbets 50% of the pot, if we were to fold more then 50% , V profits.

How do we come to a conclusion that 50%(around 50%) should be the average % in the long run?
(btw, I play live, so no HUD stats to study besides hand histories recorded manually on my phone)

Thanks for the advice !

Looking forward to hearing from all of you guys

PS : Will ask more questions as I think about them ! ^^ Thanks in advance!

When I did 20,000 6-max hands against Snowie, it had an overall post-flop folding frequency of something like 45-50% on every street, but that was when the bots were restricted to bets of half pot, pot, or 2x pot. With microstakes cashgames online, I see somewhat similar numbers (flop and river folds of 40-50%) in my HUD/tracker. Facing smaller bets (which are becoming more and more common) folding frequencies go down.
e.g. This was Snowie's analysis of some microstakes hands about 18 months ago:

Against the small bets I was facing, Snowie said I should have only been folding 41% of the time on average, but since the villains were unbalanced/value-heavy, I chose to fold a little bit more (45%). Against villains that bluff more often, it's obviously more profitable to call at a higher frequency. I don't play live, but I would guess that your opponents don't bluff at a high frequency, so it could be suicidal to call the river anywhere near 50% of the time.

I wonder how often would we have to defend then if V were to bet 2X pot?

Assuming V pots, and we defend 50% of the time, if V 2x pot, should we decrease the % to 25% or increase it to 100%?

Would it be safe to say, our range of hands for defending is separate from the range of hands which we would bet with?

eg. Checking back Top Pair No Kicker for showdown value, and cbet with setminers for fold equity.

Assuming if V's range is unbalanced/value heavy, and V pots on the river.

If we were to not defend 50% of the time but rather, decrease our defending %, would that be considered as exploitative play rather then a frequency based approach?

As well, how do we adjust our defending % now, since V's range is unbalanced and value heavy, so as to suit the individual V's tendencies and %?

Is there any formula or method to gauge or even calculate?

Thanks in advance ArtyMcFly and guys

Looking forward

Sorry to hop in but did you find snowie to be a valuable tool. Always looking for GTO resources.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

A third of the time.
The equation goes like this:
Villain bets B into a pot of P. The folding frequency he requires for his bluffs to break even is B/(B+P), which is sometimes called "alpha". The defending frequency is 1 - alpha.
e.g. If villain bets pot, the alpha is 1/(1+1) = 1/2 = 50%. If his bluffs need you to fold 50% of the time, you should obviously call 50% of the time.
If he bets 1/2 pot, the alpha is 0.5/(0.5 + 1) = 33.33%, meaning his bluffs will be profitable if you fold more than a third of the time to a half pot bet, so you should defend 67% of the time against that sizing.
If he bets 2x pot, the alpha is 2/(2+1) = 66.7%, so you need to defend 33.3%.
It would be an exploitative adaptation, albeit it would be based on villain's frequencies (or HUD stats if you prefer). Just think of it in the same way you think about someone opening in the SB when you're in the BB. If SB is a LAG, you defend more often than when he's a nit. You "exploit" the nit's imbalance by not calling at GTO frequencies, because that would just mean you're giving him money with a range that doesn't break even vs the nit. Because he's playing sub-optimally and not opening wide enough, you pick up loads of money from the walks he gives you. In the same way, someone that doesn't bluff the river very often gives you the chance to get lots of free showdowns (you never have to make "breakeven calls" against him, and indeed you won't break even if he's not bluffing!), but you should give that player's bets more credit and fold more than "GTO".
Yes, I found it very useful and interesting, but I was a very ABC value-heavy nitreg when it first came out, so it was quite mind-blowing at first for me. Alongside books, videos and forums, it taught me a lot about ranges and balance... and how to jam 2x pot with 7-high like a boss. Whether it's valuable for you depends on what level you're at, and how you respond to that kind of training/analysis. See the very long Snowie thread in this forum.

WOW, that is really very clear and simple to understand, thank you ArtyMcfly

After reading your explanation another question popped up in my mind

Assuming we just began sitting down on a table, and everyone is a stranger to us, how do we determine our beginning frequency before we gather more information and then have the opportunity to adjust to Vs'?

I imagine that, if we were to begin by playing tight, or if we begin by playing loose and super aggressive. Those I suppose might help with table image against strangers but wouldn't that mean our frequencies would be out?

And even more terrible if we get it wrong. eg. we decided to play loose and aggressive in a HU pot against a nit(we dont even know hes one)


Looking Forward

Just play a default game that you're comfortable with. Typical regs will be neither too loose or too tight, too aggressive or too passive. Most of their stats will be "average". e.g. If you're playing a 6-max microstakes game and some players have a VPIP of 30 and some have a VPIP of 15, you'll do just fine playing a 22% VPIP game, since (almost by accident) you'll steal (or get walks) from the nits, and be able to valuetown the loose players (or call their bluffs). Once you've picked up reads on your opponents, you can change your style/frequencies to exploit the villains individually.

Ah I see! ^^

Thanks for taking your precious time to explain to me about all the questions I have ^^