Commitment is a word thrown around a lot. "He is committed now." But what decides if one is committed? I'd like to see a mathematical explanation. For instance - the pot is the same size as your stack. Now you are getting 1-1 on your money. But should you call any bet any time? Methinks no. I think psychologically when you get to a short stack (in a cash game) you start to get desperate and throw it in there, which is bad for bankrolls.

Committment is a term that typically describes scenarios where there is no more future betting and Player A's equity vs Player B's range is greater than or equal to the equity required to call Player B's bet.

It comes up in all kinds of scenarios such as tournament push/fold scenarios where the shoving player has a small stack relative to the blinds, a player semibluffs a draw and a player moves all in but doesn't make a raise large enough to deny the draw odds to call, or when improper bet sizings on previous streets leads to incredibly small stacks on the river.

Keep in mind that just because you make the correct decision at the point of commitment doesn't mean you made the right decisions prior to that point so your line as a whole maybe flawed.

I think its fine to use the term in a general sense as well. If we limp on the button with 89s with 5 other callers, and the big blind minraises, its fair to say we're "committed" even if we don't know the exact mathematics behind all of the postflop play.

If we are talking about risking the whole stack, committment only applies to tournaments and not to cashgames.

In a tournament you might end up with an "unplayable" stack. That can't happen in a cashgame where you can reload before the start of the next hand.

Other than that, the term pot committed is used for situations where the pot odds make you have to call an all-in even though you are behind at the moment. For example getting 5:1 on a call with the nut flush draw on the turn when villain already flipped over a set.

In Ed Mille'rs book on holdem he talks about committment and I think he's referring to cash games. I think that's more along the lines of pot committment

When your equity is better than the pot odds you are being offered. I've never loved the term "pot commitment" or the like because it implies that at some point you have to call whatever future bets are made no matter what, which implies that you need to do so whether it is a profitable call or not. But making an unprofitable call is a bad idea obviously. So if I must think of pot commitment, I would define it as that if I reach a point where calling an all-in is profitable, then I am pot committed.

So if you have 50 left, and there is 100 in the pot, facing a 50 bet, then you have to have 33% equity to call (50/150)

Nope. You have to have 50/200= .25 or 25% equity to call.

Or you can look at it like you are risking 50 to win 150 so your odds are 3 to 1 which means if you win 150 25% percent of the time and lose 50 75% of the time you'll break even.

So you include the 50 in hero's stack in the pot?

That's correct. If the pot is 50 and someone bets 50 you're calling 50 to win the pot of 100.

When you need to call 50 to win 100, that's 2-1 and you need 33.333% equity.

My interpretation of the scenario was the pot was already 100, someone bets 50, and it's 50 to hero to call.

If you meant pot was 50, someone bets 50 (making the pot 100), then it's on hero to call then you were correct.

For any bet taken in isolation, where P is the pot before a bet B our minimum (or break-even) equity can be solved for using the following method:

EV = Eq*(P+B) - (1-Eq)*B

Set EV = 0 and expand (1-Eq)*B:

EV = 0 = Eq*(P+B) - B + Eq*B

Combine like terms Eq*(P+B) and Eq*B. Since multiplication is equivalent to repeated addition the terms become Eq*(P+B+B) or Eq*(P+2*B):

Ev = 0 = Eq*(P+2*B) - B

Solve for equity by isolating it on one side of the equals sign:

0 = Eq*(P+2*B) - B
B = Eq*(P+2*B)
B/(P+2*B) = Eq

So our minimum equity requirement when looking at a bet is always B/(P+2*B).

Future betting actions and rake considerations will change this number slightly.

You interpreted it correctly. I was wrong. 3-1 means 75-25. For some reason I thought it meant the same as 1/3.

Thanks for the formulas, but my head exploded looking at them

Odds and fractions are not the same. Thats why its always a bit confusing to write 1/2 (0.5) if you mean 1:2 (0.33). Just sayin.

Just_grinding is right, but if you find that too complex an easy formula is.

MoneyRisked / (MoneyRisked + Reward)

So with 100 in the pot, opponent bets 50. We need to call 50 (MoneyRisked) to win (150) Reward

50 / 200 = 1/4 = 25%

It works for betting too. If we bet 50 into 100 before our opponent got a chance. we're risking 50 to win 100

50 / 150 = 1/3 = 33%

Being pot committed at any time means having no folding range at that point.

For example, villain 5bets preflop in a HU pot to 90bb with 100bb effective stacks. He has an empty folding range to any further reraises, because it would be correct to call the remaining 10bb with any hand against any action.

He can still fold in the same hand on a future street if his equity decreases: if he played 33 this way and somehow saw a board of 32222 with chips behind, he would fold to a jam, so he's no longer committed at that point.

If he 4bet preflop to 30bb with the same stacks, he's not committed because it could be correct to fold some part of his 4bet range to a jam.

Hey just_grinding, is equity always calculated by running to the river? If I'm on the flop with a flush draw but no overcards to the board, my equity would be 33% on the flop and if the turn doesn't complete the flush my equity would be 17%. When I bet on the flop though I can't use the 33% equity though right? What additional considerations do we use to call a bet on the flop in the multi street sceanario. I assume implied odds come into the picture.

With equity calculators yes. You can do it for the next street when it's cut and dry like draw vs made hand but even that is going to be complicated when we start about ranges.


Well it

What additional considerations do we use to call a bet on the flop in the multi street sceanario. I assume implied odds come into the picture.[/QUOTE]

Sorry got hung up mid thought can't fix:

TE=pokerfunAK;46407225]Hey just_grinding, is equity always calculated by running to the river?[/QUOTE]

With equity calculators yes. You can do it for the next street when it's cut and dry like draw vs made hand but even that is going to be complicated when we start about ranges.


Well it's a combination of factors. Some things to keep in mind:

1. We won't always face a bet on the turn.
2. Capturing money that isn't in the pot.
3. Range considerations for future streets.

Equity is part of the picture but as stack sizes increase relative to the pot it becomes much less relevant.