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Blinds Combined Frequencies... Blinds Combined Frequencies...

11-24-2016 , 06:28 PM
If i would like to determine the frequency of which both blinds fold to a BU RFI should i just....

((BB Folds vs BU RFI) * (SB Folds vs RFI))*100

Right?

Same goes for all the other frequencies i would like to calculate like flatting, 3betting, etc.?
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11-24-2016 , 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xPISCIVOROUSx
If i would like to determine the frequency of which both blinds fold to a BU RFI should i just....

((BB Folds vs BU RFI) * (SB Folds vs RFI))*100

Right?

Same goes for all the other frequencies i would like to calculate like flatting, 3betting, etc.?
To your first question, yes. Your second question is ambiguous, can you please rephrase or elaborate?
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11-24-2016 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornas
To your first question, yes. Your second question is ambiguous, can you please rephrase or elaborate?
By answering my first question you answered my "ambiguous" second question...Basically i was refering if the combined frequencies of both blinds folding/calling/3betting/Raising vs a BU RFI or an Open Limp was the product of multiplying SB vs BU frequency x BB vs BU frequency
Blinds Combined Frequencies... Quote
11-24-2016 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xPISCIVOROUSx
By answering my first question you answered my "ambiguous" second question...Basically i was refering if the combined frequencies of both blinds folding/calling/3betting/Raising vs a BU RFI or an Open Limp was the product of multiplying SB vs BU frequency x BB vs BU frequency
Not quite. For the others you have to use 1 minus frequency, eg solve for the frequency of NOT 3betting, then subtract the answer from 1 to get your total 3bet percentage. If you simply multiply the 3bet percentage, your combined frequency is going to be lower than each individual player's frequency.
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11-24-2016 , 09:27 PM
Quote:
...your combined frequency is going to be lower than each individual player's frequency...
I dont see why this should be an issue unless you´re facing a very opposite villains tendency wise in general im expecting the combined frequencies to be lower than the individual ones.
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11-24-2016 , 09:37 PM
So...

1. Steal %. To account the % of the time BU open raises and BOTH blinds fold. Ex: If each player has a 60% VPIP you will only win without showdown (steal the blinds) 16% of the time when you open the button.

((1-VPIP.SB)*(1-VPIP.BB))*100

2. Blinds Call %. To account the % of the time BOTH blinds call and im gonna see a flop 3-way. Ex: If both players flat 40% of the time you will end up in a min-raised 3-way pot 16% of the time

((BB Call vs BU RFI)*(SB Call vs BU RFI))*100

3. Blinds 3Bet %. To account the % of the time Hero will be facing a 3bet for either villain inthe blinds. Ex: If each player has a 20% 3-bet frequency, we have a 36% chance of being 3-bet.

(1-[(1-BB 3Bet% vs BU RFI)*(1-SB 3Bet% vs BU RFI)])*100

4. Blinds Facing an Open Limp. To account the % of the time SB completes and BB Checks behind after BU open limps. Ex: If the SB completes 50% of hands and the BB checks 70% of the time you will end up in a limped 3-way pot 35% of the time.

((BB Checks Behind after BU Open Limps)*(SB Calls vs BU Open Limps))*100
Blinds Combined Frequencies... Quote
11-24-2016 , 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xPISCIVOROUSx
I dont see why this should be an issue unless you´re facing a very opposite villains tendency wise in general im expecting the combined frequencies to be lower than the individual ones.
Let me rephrase. If SB and BB 3bet 8% each, and you multiply the frequencies, you would get a total frequency of 0.64%. This can't be correct, as the total of SB and BB 3bet is less than it is for one player.

What you need to do is work out the frequency which they don't 3bet (1 - 3b%), multiply those frequencies, and then take away the result from 1 to get the combined frequency. In this case, it would be 0.92*0.92 = 0.8464; 1-.8464 = 15.36%
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11-24-2016 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornas
Let me rephrase. If SB and BB 3bet 8% each, and you multiply the frequencies, you would get a total frequency of 0.64%. This can't be correct, as the total of SB and BB 3bet is less than it is for one player.

What you need to do is work out the frequency which they don't 3bet (1 - 3b%), multiply those frequencies, and then take away the result from 1 to get the combined frequency. In this case, it would be 0.92*0.92 = 0.8464; 1-.8464 = 15.36%
Now i see it, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me. But how is this 3bet % combined frequency different from the frequency i posted on the OP?
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11-24-2016 , 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xPISCIVOROUSx
Now i see it, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me. But how is this 3bet % combined frequency different from the frequency i posted on the OP?
With your fold frequency, both players are taking the same action. With the 3bet frequency, only one player is taking the action.
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11-26-2016 , 12:34 PM
This method will probably work for good approximations but just to be thorough not all of these events are independent, so you can not necessarily just multiply the results together. It's likely inconsequential to what you're doing but just wanted to share.

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11-28-2016 , 01:51 PM
I think the dependencies can be quite significant. Suppose a player has a VPIP of 20%. What that may constitute is 40% when it is folded to him and 10% when not, and that averages out to the 20% based on occurrence frequency of other player action. So multiplying VPIP’s or other metrics assuming independence can be off by quite a bit.
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11-28-2016 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by statmanhal
I think the dependencies can be quite significant. Suppose a player has a VPIP of 20%. What that may constitute is 40% when it is folded to him and 10% when not, and that averages out to the 20% based on occurrence frequency of other player action. So multiplying VPIP’s or other metrics assuming independence can be off by quite a bit.
I agree. My wording was poorly chosen. I just think it's unlikely to be beneficial to OP to dive into the best way to analytically or otherwise estimate or calculate the exact frequencies of the events OP is referring to. But honestly I'm just assuming the OP'S motives for asking and perhaps OP would benefit from making better estimations or calculations.
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