In the last couple of years online poker bet sizing seems to have shifted to cbetting 1/3 pot on the flop and then barreling with a pot size turn bet. (well at least at NL200 zoom, this seems to be fairly common sizing from a preflop raiser).

Does anyone have any ideas about the theory behind this?

I understand it causes the villain to defend a wider range on the flop, but why is this good? and why the turn size pot bet?

I dont even play higher than nl50. But these bet sizings seem pretty wrong to me.
First of all i would just bet 30% otf if the board is dry, because i have a depolarized range on these textures. On wet boards i go for 75% all the time. Only if the pot is already quiet huge (4b, squeezed, etc) i go for smaller sizes than 60%.
Secondly, after villain called a small flop bet, his range is pretty weak, so it seems very wrong to me to confront him in a situation where hero has range advantage with a pot size bet ott.

I assume that this doesn't happen on EVERY flop and just that it seems to happen more frequently on flops where equity distribution is pretty clear and that hand values will not significantly shift as more cards are dealt (i.e. the board is not draw heavy) which would probably be a larger share of all possible flops.

Betting 1/3 of the pot in this scenario serves a lot of functions including widening your opponent's calling range and creating a pretty good risk/reward ratio for some of your worst bluffs.

After the flop play, the calling player is typically capped so the betting player takes advantage of this by betting his slam dunk value hands and best bluffs in a ratio. The bigger the bet the more his value hands get paid off and the more he can bluff (compared to other bet sizes).

In addition I doubt the average player is defending appropriately post flop for most situations including bluffing and correct call downs.


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Hmmm. I know the size of the flop bet SHOULD be to set up pot size versus effective stacks and optimal frequency plays on the next streets. Is that sorta what you are saying or did I go the wrong direction?

Thanks!


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I guess I'm not quite sure what you're saying when you say optimal frequency plays and pot size vs effective stacks.

Yes we should always have a betting plan to get stacks in by the river at 100 bb stack sizes. As stacks grow larger you have to consider more strategic options all on the same street such as bet/3bet/5bet etc.

I just meant all the MDF on the river, when the pot reaches a certain size. I am still learning the later streets and just call that "frequency play" since I am not there yet with specifics.

My understanding is that all of that starts on the flop and how the ranges connect to flop texture and how this should translate to flop bet sizing, versus effective stacks with an eye on river scenarios.


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^^ These are crucial points. By betting small on the flop, you induce light calls at a high frequency, and then you often go much more polarized on the turn to exploit how weak that calling range is. (If you'd bet big on the flop, then all the really weak stuff just folds, so villain's turn range is stronger and there's less scope for you to bloat the pot further).

Matt Janda's written a fair bit about this in his new book, but there's also an excellent article by him on this very topic on the Upswing site: https://www.upswingpoker.com/small-b...trategy-guide/.

EDIT: One practical example that comes up quite often for me is when I 3-bet out of the SB and the CO or BTN calls, with a range containing a lot of small pairs. If the flop comes Q64r, I can bet small and get called by 99/88/77/55 etc. Then when the turn comes an ace, king, jack or ten, and especially when it creates some BDFDs for me, I can bomb the turn with a Broadway draw, and villain folds his underpair. In a curious way, I get "value" on the flop from a hand that I'm going to make fold on the turn. It's win-win.

Hey i struggle a lot with bet sizings in 3! pots, something i'm working on right now...

I don't get how bet sizings in 3! pots should be different from SRP pots, i mean it depends on positions + ranges, well mainly ranges.

So obviously ranges are narrower/tighter in 3! pots and say on some textures one player will have a massive range advantage and the other player won't given positions?

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That's all ik so far based on observation, but was wondering how to size my bets in 3! pots especially given ranges and larger pot?

In 3b+ pots you have usually a) a very strong range advantage being pfr and b) its usually way easier to get stacks in to the river, so you don't need to bet as big.

Only if the board is wet and we have a stron hand and it hits villains range i would still bet 75%.