iMEGA 3rd Circuit trial thread - iMega Discussion -

Pyro12345 · 07-01-2009, 03:25 PM

Keep us updated pls as to whats going on...

prep... preliminary stuff... actual litigation... whatever...

GO TEAM (imo)

joe@iMEGA · 07-01-2009, 04:55 PM

Right now, two things are going on:

1. Our attorneys are getting their oral arguments ready for game time (10:00 am EST, July 7th @ the US Courthouse in Philadelphia). We have two attorneys speaking: Eric Bernstein, who represented us at the trial level in US District Court; and Stephen Saltzburg, professor of law at George Washington U., and former deputy attorney-general of the United States.

2. Taking care of some housekeeping details, such as notifying the court of who gets what amount of time (Saltzburg, 10 min.; Bernstein, 5 min.).

That's right. If you're adding correctly, you'll see that we have FIFTEEN MINUTES to argue why UIGEA should be overturned. The DoJ gets the same fifteen minutes to defend the law. So, a total of 30 minutes for oral arguments in this challenge.

That's amazing to me. Sure, our attorneys and the DoJ's have sacrificed an entire rain forest's worth of trees with all of the briefings that have been submitted in advance of this court date. There is no lack of written arguments for the judges (and their clerks) to consider before even one word is spoken.

But after more than two years since we first filed to challenge this law, a mere 15 minutes seems mighty short.

We're ready, though. Saltzburg and Bernstein are ready to go, and I think they have a strong hand to play. I'm sure it is the height of over-confidence, but given everything we've documented for the court about the flaws of this law - from the vagueness and lack of a definition of what "unlawful Internet gambling" is, to the over-blocking of fully-exempted and legal Internet gambling transactions (state lotteries, horse racing) - I just can't see how the DoJ's attorneys can counter what, to me at least, seems like a textbook case of "void for vagueness".

It will be at least 30 days - likely more - after oral arguments before we might see a decision from the court. Stay tuned.

Joe@iMEGA

gangip · 07-01-2009, 05:05 PM

gogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogo
glgl

Pyro12345 · 07-01-2009, 05:27 PM

Thanks Joe,

I really hope you guys have the best of luck. I know the chance factor in trials can be large so whatever happens in regards to things that are uncontrollable I hope you do your best.

I hope this doesn't seem like fearmongering... but...

Do you think there is any wisdom to perhaps moving money away from the sites before the ruling comes out?

I keep mid five figures online and I would hate to see there be a problem with withdrawal.

Grunch · 07-01-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

we have FIFTEEN MINUTES to argue why UIGEA should be overturned

I would never presume to tell you how to do your job, and I know you have done this kind of thing before. But I have always wondered if you hire outside specialized help to prepare a compelling presentation?

curtains · 07-01-2009, 05:48 PM

Is it open to the public?

sluggger5x · 07-01-2009, 06:08 PM

I hope this goes extremely well. Best wishes on the 7th!!!!!!!!!!

kailua · 07-01-2009, 06:26 PM

Thanks Joe….your efforts and professionalism are appreciated

JPFisher55 · 07-01-2009, 08:31 PM

After the sacrifice of a forest of trees, all the preparation time and 30 minutes of oral argument of which most will be judges questioning the lawyers, it would not surprise me if the Third Circuit Court of Appeals reversed the District Court on the narrow grounds that the iMEGA has standing to raise its original privacy legal argument, the void for vagueness argument and the first amendment argument.

Having so ruled, the Court sends the case back to the District Court for trial and ruling on the former two arguments. Thus, after another two years, two more forest of trees, hundreds of hours of preparation time and maybe another hour of oral argument are expended, the Third Circuit Court of Appeals finally decides that yes indeed no one understands the UIGEA so it is void for vagueness.

MitchL · 07-01-2009, 08:45 PM

One of the observations I have made in my short legal career is no matter how strong you think your argument is, your opposition (assuming they are competent) will be well versed in it and will almost always present compelling arguments of their own.

ffr · 07-01-2009, 11:21 PM

Quoted from the iMEGA site about the upcoming hearing:
“This law will finally have to stand on it’s own two feet in court, free from politics and all other outside influences,” said iMEGA chairman Joe Brennan Jr. “We feel very confident that when the judges take a look at the law, they will see just how defective it is, and they will overturn it.”

I hadn't heard anything about this court hearing coming up next week until the recent 2+2 PokerCast (interview with Joe Brennen Jr.). Is there actually a realistic potential for the UIGEA to be overturned once oral arguments are heard?

If so, how in the world hasn't this been one of the bigger news stories in the industry lately?

(afterall, the iMEGA is 2 for 2 in court cases, MN and KY)

GOOD LUCK !!!! FINGERS CROSSED ON JULY 7TH!!!

deathduck · 07-02-2009, 05:03 AM

You guys are awesome, thanks for everything.

Bannnnnnn · 07-02-2009, 07:11 AM

gogogo good luck joe and IMega keep us informed!

sba9630 · 07-02-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe@iMEGA

...It will be at least 30 days - likely more - after oral arguments before we might see a decision from the court...

The latest stats I was able to find (2007) showed an average of 2.8 months between arguments and a decision out of the 3rd Circuit.

*TT* · 07-02-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFisher55

After the sacrifice of a forest of trees, all the preparation time and 30 minutes of oral argument of which most will be judges questioning the lawyers, it would not surprise me if the Third Circuit Court of Appeals reversed the District Court on the narrow grounds that the iMEGA has standing to raise its original privacy legal argument, the void for vagueness argument and the first amendment argument.

Having so ruled, the Court sends the case back to the District Court for trial and ruling on the former two arguments. Thus, after another two years, two more forest of trees, hundreds of hours of preparation time and maybe another hour of oral argument are expended, the Third Circuit Court of Appeals finally decides that yes indeed no one understands the UIGEA so it is void for vagueness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffr

. Is there actually a realistic potential for the UIGEA to be overturned once oral arguments are heard?

I think the answer from JBJ above explains that July's oral arguments are to determine standing only, assuming they are successful then the case returns to the Third Curcuit of Appeals. This is my understanding from discussions with Joe as well as his post above. Hope this helps!