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*** Official 2Plus2 / RPM Issue Thread*** *** Official 2Plus2 / RPM Issue Thread***

10-03-2011 , 04:14 PM
"The guys that run Cake have always been really good people, but this makes it look like they might be in some money trouble, which would be news."

I dont know much about marketing/posting rules but that statement above from RPMSeth is disgusting at any level from a purely human perspective!!!!

If this is a tactic that isnt frowned upon by 2+2 then Im in the wrong place!
10-03-2011 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OklaHustler
If this is a tactic that isnt frowned upon by 2+2 then Im in the wrong place!
I think it should be pretty clear by now that it isn't considered acceptable.
10-03-2011 , 06:52 PM
@RPMSeth I know you didnt buy the merge funds with your EnergyBurst account, but did anybody try to sell them to you at the vig you offered?
10-03-2011 , 06:58 PM
Cross-posted from the NVG thread:

Thank you for remaining patient while we considered a reply to the two issues at hand here. The information initially released by 2+2 moderators was done while we were discussing with key 2+2 staff and moderators if, when, and how to reply. As such, we rushed out a response in an attempt to immediately curb the most egregious allegation of buying and selling player funds while we considered whether a further response was prudent.

As mentioned in earlier posts, I and others have posted from secondary 2+2 accounts and responsibility is accepted for these mistakes. Our sincere apologies are extended to those who may have been offended by these posts, this will not happen again.

Consideration of whether or not to respond further to the issue of buying and selling player funds has been a hot topic of discussion. Our decision to reply is issued with a very strong note that we do not have any evidence to suggest that any operator on the Merge Network has engaged in the buying and selling of their own player funds at a discounted rate, and that accusations to the contrary should not be made without evidence.

For a bit of background, these secondary 2+2 accounts were used in the past to root out operators breaking Merge Network rules by undercutting competing skins with "under-the-table" rakeback deals; deals that offered a higher percentage of rakeback at a flat rate than allowed by rule. These deals were often 'bait-and-switch' deals; a deal to get a player through the door, and then leave the higher flat rate left unpaid or revoked. Merge Network rules state that players can only receive rakeback on one skin, and in order to switch that rakeback account to another skin, the player must have 60 days of inactivity on the first skin that they received rakeback through. Not only has the skin offering the flat deal competed unfairly by 'illegally' undercutting their competition, this has left the player with little choice but to continue playing on that skin, or lose a large amount of value for 60 days. RPM Poker has never offered these types of deals and has often warned users against accepting them.

Through anonymous investigation, we were able to uncover proof that a number of competing skins on the Merge Network were using 2+2 as an avenue to offer these under-the-table deals. These offers were made in many ways, one of which was by sending private messages to users who posted in the RPM Poker Sponsored Support Forum. This information was passed to the Merge Network and dealt with internally, and this also caused a shift in 2+2 policy with regard to how users could request rakeback deals from advertisers and affiliates.

The same motivations were used when accounts related to RPM Poker posted to buy and sell player funds at a discounted rate. There was no intention of buying and selling funds; the motivation was to uncover as much information as we could to who was buying and selling funds in order to pass this information to the Merge Network. In our zeal to uncover information we were looking for, the implications of making such an offer were not fully considered, now fully recognized, none of which intended. We had information given to us that led us to believe there may have been an operator on the Merge Network actively engaged in the buying and selling of its own player funds at a discounted rate for reasons unknown to us. We uncovered no evidence to corroborate this information, and we did not engage in the buying and selling of any funds ourselves.

Our lack of reply on this issue has been solely due to the fact that we have not felt it prudent to mention that this is what we were investigating as we do not have any evidence to suggest that this has ever occurred. Because of the volatility of the poker industry, there is often an unfair presumption of guilt before innocence when it may not be due. As such, I would like to reiterate once more that RPM Poker has never bought and sold player funds at a discount, and barring evidence, have no reason to believe that other operators have done so either.

We hope that this matter can now be considered settled, and we look forward to continuing to provide the high level of service and communication that is expected of us to the 2+2 community.
10-03-2011 , 07:24 PM
I'm confused about why RPM would take investigative action against another skin re: the purchase and sale of player funds. Did Merge request your support in this effort? It seems like something the network would flush out on its own, rather than delegate it to a skin with an obvious conflict of interest.
10-03-2011 , 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by provotrout
I'm confused about why RPM would take investigative action against another skin re: the purchase and sale of player funds. Did Merge request your support in this effort? It seems like something the network would flush out on its own, rather than delegate it to a skin with an obvious conflict of interest.
My understanding was the posts were made to buy/sell RPM funds(not funds on other skins).

I think its a perfectly legitimate way to find users who may be committing some sort of fraud on RPM. That said I don't think shilling should be allowed at all.

As far as the rakeback deals. Welcome to having a skin on a network. Someone is always trying to break the rules and cannibalize the rest of the network.
10-04-2011 , 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by provotrout
I'm confused about why RPM would take investigative action against another skin re: the purchase and sale of player funds. Did Merge request your support in this effort? It seems like something the network would flush out on its own, rather than delegate it to a skin with an obvious conflict of interest.
I agree on this. Why wouldn't merge do it? Especially when RPMSeth is badmouthing the other skins, he definitly doesn't seem to be the person to be doing the investigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJacob
My understanding was the posts were made to buy/sell RPM funds(not funds on other skins).

I think its a perfectly legitimate way to find users who may be committing some sort of fraud on RPM. That said I don't think shilling should be allowed at all.

As far as the rakeback deals. Welcome to having a skin on a network. Someone is always trying to break the rules and cannibalize the rest of the network.
There is no need to do it for RPM since he already has access to the accounts.


I still have no idea why he was doing it and how it help him. Surely to weed out under the table rb deals all he would need to do is say "Looking for rb on merge, pls pm best deals" and they would of come like bees to honey.


Seth could you please list any shill accounts you used that haven't been outed like the energyBurst account?

I think you also owe an apology to Lock poker.

Also "We hope that this matter can now be considered settled, and we look forward to continuing to provide the high level of service and communication that is expected of us to the 2+2 community. "

should be

"We hope that this matter can now be considered settled, and we look forward to starting to provide the high level of service and communication that is expected of us to the 2+2 community. "


It is a shame, because I really don't think you needed to do the shilling, you were doing fine without it.
10-04-2011 , 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJacob
My understanding was the posts were made to buy/sell RPM funds(not funds on other skins).
He offered to buy Merge funds, not specifically RPM fwiw.
10-05-2011 , 05:15 AM
I wonder how merge feels about his behaviour.
10-06-2011 , 02:38 AM
I love how he skips the part where he explains why he is was shilling for his company on annon accounts along with bad mouthing the competition....... It took you this long to come up with this story Seth? LOL at their "investigations"
10-06-2011 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruthSpeaks
I love how he skips the part where he explains why he is was shilling for his company on annon accounts along with bad mouthing the competition....... It took you this long to come up with this story Seth? LOL at their "investigations"
Quote:
As mentioned in earlier posts, I and others have posted from secondary 2+2 accounts and responsibility is accepted for these mistakes. Our sincere apologies are extended to those who may have been offended by these posts, this will not happen again.
addressed here
10-07-2011 , 11:41 PM
any update of if we will get an update that makes sense about RPMSeth attempting to buy at a vig?
10-08-2011 , 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRaiderr
any update of if we will get an update that makes sense about RPMSeth attempting to buy at a vig?
Looks like the Man in Charge just gave the final “update” for you in the NVG thread.

As “Dandy” Don Meridith would say/sing, “Turn out the lights… the party’s over…”
10-08-2011 , 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRaiderr
any update of if we will get an update that makes sense about RPMSeth attempting to buy at a vig?
This post was explained in the NVG thread, and I responded again here.

Mason has locked the thread in the NVG forums. I will cross-post his reply, and this thread will also be closed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
Hi Everyone:

I've made the decision to lock this thread and will consider locking any other threads that get started on this subject.

The reason for this is that the information which now appears is so jumbled up that it's difficult to tell exactly what is going on. Even though I won't be too specific, it appears that much of the problem is because NoahSD erroneously put out information that was inaccurate, and while we believe this was an honest mistake, and Noah did apologize for the error, damage has been done to what we believe is a good company and continues to be done since not everyone is getting exactly what the error means.

On the other hand, RPMSeth has also made some mistakes which is why this thread exists in the first place. 2+2 believes they occurred in part because Seth did not think through all the implications of his actions, and that on a forum like ours where there is much transparency, these type of things have a way of coming out. However, Seth has acknowledged these errors, apologized for them, and has promised that that they will not be repeated. Since we at 2+2 management do feel that this is the case, and also feel that RPM Poker is a good company, there is not much else we would consider doing at this moment.

But if we ever have reason to believe in the future that there are new problems related to RPM Poker or any of its representatives, we will address them in an appropriate manner. However, at this time, we are confident that there will never be a need for additional action.

And for NoahSD, we believe that he is doing a great service to the poker community, and to everyone who participates at 2+2, with his poker news website Subject Poker. But with this service also comes more responsibility which requires careful thought about anything you may say or post for public consumption.

Best wishes,

Mason Malmuth
Owner and Publisher
Two Plus Two Interactive LLC

PS: This thread will be a sticky for a short period of time to make sure that everyone with an interest in it sees it.

      
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